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Author Topic: HATS OFF 9.5 fragment wanted
Joe Caruso
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Posts: 3435
From: USA
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 - posted June 07, 2017 11:15 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cheers, Shorty

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Terry Sills
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From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
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 - posted June 07, 2017 02:35 PM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah - and I'd like the full film. Then I could retire to the Bahamas [Razz]

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Joe Caruso
Film God

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From: USA
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 - posted June 08, 2017 10:45 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, heard a slight rumor there might be a piece of it in France somewhere

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted June 08, 2017 07:04 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The French title of this lost film is : "Plus de chapeau".

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Dominique

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Maurice Leakey
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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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 - posted June 09, 2017 02:40 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Despite an extensive and ongoing search "Hats Off" (1927) remains the only Laurel & Hardy film to be lost in its entirety. A similar storyline was used five years later with "The Music Box".

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Maurice

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: United Kingdom
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 - posted June 09, 2017 06:33 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting little article. Maybe some day it will appear. I didn't know a Tree in a test tube was a rarity upto 1969.

Less than five years ago a very interesting blurb was posted on a Laurel and Hardy website’s message board. The posting made the startling declaration that the long-lost 1927 L&H film Hats Off had been discovered and was tied up in negotiations with various video companies for future release. This was not the first and I expect it will not be the last time that a rumor or claim is made that this film has been found.

Laurel and Hardy fans have had the rug pulled out from under them so many times when it comes to the discovery of this film that it seems impossible that it will ever turn up. But let me be the first to say that I will almost guarantee that Hats Off will be found in my lifetime (I can’t speak for yours). Just look at Laurel and Hardy history and see that the odds are stacked in our favor.

In 1973 Richard W. Bann published the first definitive Laurel and Hardy filmography, which became gospel for over fifteen years. Prior to this, there existed no complete filmography – not even Stan Laurel’s handwritten version. The existence of The Tree in a Test Tube was not common knowledge until 1969. The boys’ cameos in On the Loose, Wild Poses, On the Wrong Trek, and The Stolen Jools were popping up to collectors one-by-one and not included on earlier lists. At some point we all became accustomed and comfortable with this list of 105 films, confident that there would be no more ‘popping up.’

duck.jpgWe had our list of 105, but there were five ‘missing films’: Duck Soup, Why Girls Love Sailors, Hats Off, The Battle of the Century, and The Rogue Song. In 1974, Duck Soup was the first of these to miraculously re-surface. It was found in the format of a French 9.5mm home movie edition. Subsequently, a Belgian 35mm reissue provided us with a beautiful print to enjoy. Currently the only missing element from Duck Soup is the original English title cards.

027.jpgThe pie-fight sequence from The Battle of the Century, although incomplete and re-edited, was saved by Robert Youngson when he prepared his 1958 compilation The Golden Age of Comedy. The negative that he used was already in an advanced state of decomposition and only this portion was salvaged by Youngson. In 1979, we got to taste another missing piece of the Laurel and Hardy pie with the discovery of the opening boxing match scene. Even with this surviving footage, less than half of the complete film is known to exist.

why.jpgIt was not until 1985 that the major discovery of a French 16mm print of Why Girls Love Sailors took place. Unfortunately, the quality was poor, appearing extremely grainy and murky. But as Stan said “Any bird can build a nest, but it isn’t everyone that can lay an egg.” In 2000, an original European 35mm nitrate camera negative was located bringing viewers the opportunity to see this once-lost treasure in glorious pristine format.

roguesong22.jpgThe Rogue Song has remained one of the most intriguing and frustrating of the lost films, mainly because it is one of the very few examples of the boys in color. Although their footage amounts to less than twenty minutes of the nearly two-hour film, it has been placed on the American Film Institute’s top ten most wanted films list. And piece by piece, The Rogue Song continues to come together. The complete audio soundtrack, one three-minute clip with Stan and Babe, the complete theatrical trailer, one reel of assorted scenes, and a half-reel of a ballet sequence have all been located. Another recent discovery indicates that two Laurel and Hardy scenes from The Rogue Song (the shaving scene and the bee-swallowing scene) were televised as recently as 1970.

nowill.jpgIn 1989, the unthinkable occurred: the second reel of a ‘new’ film did ‘pop up’ which included both Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy. It was the 1927 silent Charley Chase vehicle Now I’ll Tell One, making every known filmography of those famous 105 films now obsolete. One may also wish to add to this filmography the seven Spanish language films that were discovered in the back of an M-G-M vault in 1986: Ladrones, La Vida Nocturna, Tiembla y Titubea, Noche de Duendes, De Bote en Bote, Los Calaveras, and Politquerias, all of which feature Laurel and Hardy phonetically speaking their lines of dialogue in Spanish as well as many additional scenes edited from the American release prints.

waterrats.jpgMore? There’s the French language Les Carrotiers and Un Nuit Extravagnza, the German Spuk Um Mitternacht, extended sequences from Laughing Gravy and Pardon Us, restored footage from Pack Up Your Troubles and Babes In Toyland, newsreel footage of the boys, television appearances, radio performances, Erskine Johnson’s Hollywood Reel with Stan Laurel, Hollywood Handicap newsreel featuring Oliver Hardy, new film trailers, both color and black and white home movies, and the original Brats with the original music score and main titles – all of which have surfaced for public consumption within the last twenty years

So what about Hats Off? Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch. Bupkis. All we have are rumors and reports. Which brings us back to the claim from 2002 mentioned at the beginning of this article… This fellow claimed to be Elmer Guiol, nephew of Hal Roach director Fred L. Guiol. He stated that his uncle held many cans of unprocessed ‘movie copies to films made by the Hal Roach Studios.’ Among them were two versions of the opening spool of the film with the boys attempting to climb a staircase carrying a washing machine. He goes on to claim theat the picture quality is excellent due to the nature of the films spools, which were unprocessed until recently.

Elmer stated that he understood that this film was not available to the public at present and that, having access to these reels of film, he was currently in negotiation with various video companies with regard to its possible future release.

Incredible? Absolutely. Unbeleiveable? You tell me. But in case it is true, I wanted to report it first. If it’s another rib, I never really believed it any way. After all, Fred L. Guiol didn’t even direct Hats Off. But then why would old Elmer impersonate his nephew?

If Laurel and Hardy history teaches us anything, it is that nothing is too far-fetched not to be the truth. Or something like that. Perhaps the boys are orchestrating their newest playlet from their seats in heaven, the sequel to Leave ‘Em Laughing, entitled Keep ‘Em Guessing. Just bear this in mind the next time you poo-poo the idea of Hats Off being discovered: the Dead Sea Scrolls were hidden around 67 A.D. and not located until 1947! Okay, so maybe we won’t have Hats Off in my lifetime. But never say never!

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Bill Brandenstein
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From: California
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 - posted June 09, 2017 07:24 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nice article, Mike. Source?

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Mike Newell
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 - posted June 11, 2017 06:01 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Bill

Here's the reference

http://www.waxapple.org/articles/archives/80/

Another interesting article attached

Mike

http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/archive/articles/2011-04-ucla/ucla-1.html

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

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From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
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 - posted June 11, 2017 07:29 PM      Profile for Joseph Randall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Additionally-- the full pie fight from BATTLE was discovered a few year ago. I'm still waiting to see it.

BTW, what's up with www.waxapple.org? They haven't published a new article in 10 years but the sight is still up.
[Confused]

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Joe Caruso
Film God

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From: USA
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 - posted June 14, 2017 04:26 PM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I never give up - L&H; Magic Behind The movies, also mentioned a rumor of a fragment in 9.5 - Who knows - I'll never stop searching for this and other silent films I'm after - Shorty

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

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From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
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 - posted June 15, 2017 08:44 PM      Profile for Joseph Randall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well that book came out in 1987, so the rumor is now at least 30 years old. If it hasn't been found yet in 9.5 I think it is a good bet that we can cross that gauge off the list of possibilities, unfortunately.

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Mathew James
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From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted June 21, 2017 10:14 AM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
in the meanwhile... [Smile]

Hats Off: A Reconstruction

ps: Dominique, it is strange how that french title translation means differently to me. How do you translate 'plus de chapeau'? I would say in English 'More Hats'. Maybe Décoller les chapeaux is closer to removing hats? Regardless, it is an idiom which has more of the meaning of saluting someone, or like saying, 'i take my hat off to you(or tip my hat)' is showing appreciation to someone for something they have done.

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--
Cheers,
Matt

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Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 332
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted July 04, 2017 10:38 AM      Profile for Allan Broadfield   Author's Homepage   Email Allan Broadfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I also believe that the celebrated but absent 'London after midnight', (though apparently overated) will eventually be unearthed, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a 9.5 clip to surface of 'Hats off', sold by someone for a pittance.
Despite rumours to the contrary, it hasn't been located apparently since 1930.
Perhaps I'm a glass half empty sort of bloke?

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted July 05, 2017 05:13 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Matthew, I'm very sorry for the late answer. I didn't see your message before. "Plus" has two meanings in French : more and...no more. In spoken French, most of the people will pronounce the s when plus means more while this letter is never pronounced when it means no more. Things are more confusing when it comes to written langue. I must admitt that the tittle sounds strange to me but maybe at that Time since wearing a hat was the norm, they used today forgotten expressions with the word chapeau ? 😀

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Dominique

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Joe Caruso
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 07, 2017 03:30 PM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
the search continues...Cheers all, Shorty

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