8mm Forum: Inventing a projector

8mm Forum

my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home

next oldest topic

next newest topic

»	8mm Forum » 8mm Forum » Inventing a projector (Page 2)

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Author

Topic: Inventing a projector

Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted November 11, 2015 01:11 PM

Email Steven J Kirk

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Okay then, a simple hand-lacing super 8 machine with 2000ft reel size top and bottom, with a pedestal, like a pro machine. mag mono and stereo and optical, could just be line outputs. 250w lamp.

--------------------
VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

| IP: Logged

Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted November 11, 2015 02:50 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I think Phil felt that manual threading would be a plus point on his machine, but I'm far from sure if it really is. I know there is a significant body of collectors who don't trust auto-threading and don't want it, but is it the majority? I'd much prefer an auto-thread as long as it's reliable. But I often screen single trailers and other short items, so frequent manual threading is something I can do without.

--------------------
Adrian Winchester

| IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 11, 2015 02:58 PM

Edit/Delete Post

I agree entirely Adrian. When auto threading is incorperated into a mechanism well, its quicker, easier and more convenient and no risk whatsoever to the film

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

| IP: Logged

Mark Silvester
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: England
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 11, 2015 03:52 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Sorry, guys - I do not agree..."auto threading"...if people had put money up front with Phil's idea and effort...I am sure a lot of that could have been incorporated. But, you would have had to "cough" up money...and therein lies the "rub".

But and this is the real but...no-one in this hobby would back any of it. It is great to talk about it...enthuse..all that..dream, even as most of this thread really is about. But cash would not come forward. So I say again - thanks to Phil...he "put" his money where his mouth was and tried. I have known Phil since 1989...his "dream" was to deliver for 8mm and 16mm film collectors film and equipment wise...but primarily 8mm. He has done more than that - period!

His shop is about half a mile from where I work..where else - in this country or worldwide" is there such a place as his...on a proper retail basis??? For 8mm...

[Wink]

[Wink]

--------------------
Mark Silvester

| IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 11, 2015 03:53 PM

Email Dominique De Bast

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

There is no risk when it works but that's not always the case (that's why leaders are useful). The internal auto-threading is generally ok but it happens often (with me, anyway) that the films doesn't automatically go on the take up spool.

--------------------
Dominique

| IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted November 11, 2015 04:02 PM

Edit/Delete Post

I have never had an issue with an autothread mechanism thst works well to begin with. Only those that have known flaws associated with them.

The ones that work well, work 100% of the time perfectly well.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

| IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 11, 2015 04:05 PM

Email Dominique De Bast

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I must be unlucky :-(

--------------------
Dominique

| IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 11, 2015 05:28 PM

Email Steve Klare

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

The leader almost never makes it onto the take-up reel if it's polyester. Acetate? -maybe half the time. (It depends on the curl.)

Poly just flops down under its own weight and heads for the table.

-this would work much better without gravity!

My favored "new" machine is an Elmo ST-1200HD remanufactured with those infamous guides replaced with something like stainless steel or plated aluminum clones, rollerized if that's what it takes (-just so I can stop hearing about them endlessly on Internet discussion boards!). I want them to rip out the rocker/roller assembly and replace it with fixed pulleys for 24 FPS only and while they are doing a new shutter wheel for the pulley to mate up with, make it two blades.

For my machine I'll take the option "No internal speaker or recording capability", just give me decent line level outputs in both monaural and twin track modes. You can make all of that come out of a single 1/4" stereo jack, too.

Color? Electric blue. (I mean...while you're at it!)

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

| IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 11, 2015 07:08 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Phil's CHC Fumeo was, as I recall, priced at about $4,000.00. For $1,500 you could, and can, get a GS1200 in top working order, so there was no way that Phil's bare bones projector could compete with that.
So called 'Re-manufactured" projectors are the way to go for the future, and just about anything in a GS1200 can be repaired or replaced. We just have to find someone who will remanufacture sound heads for the Elmo's, Eumigs. Bauer's, and Beaulieu's.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

| IP: Logged

Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted December 09, 2015 10:02 AM

Email Phil Murat

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Goodmorning Joe,

Engineering a "New" S8 Projector is a motivating idea !!
So.......
1) As the product should be costy due to many "Precision" parts, the project must be simple like a "Pro" machine.
2) Just the minimum parts to buid it , but "Top" Quality.
3) The tape path has to be free of "nasty" plastic guides
4) Auto threading has to be simplidied and completly deseapears once off.
5) Important : No floating skate installed on the Lens Housing, the opposit......Yes !
6) Easy acces of the path to blow out dusts during operating.
7) Skate and Frame guide should be made of plain steel with Hard Chromium coating (Rectified, Polish or Super grinding).No soft material to be used
8) All rollers Aluminium or Stainless Steel fitted on small roller bearings.
9) Reel hubs: Due to the big size of the Reels (750 m ); plan to install a simple Thumd Screw fixture (I have modified my machine with that system).
10) All parts subject to an usual wear easy to replace.
11) Light : To avoid big cooler Fan, may be install a "Low" power Arc Xenon lamp (Assume 100 w is enough) . May be a U/V filter to add between lamp and the tape.
12) 2 motors are necessary . One for the frames, the other for the sound (with electronic regulation)
13) If static guides are necessary, include , as possible, PTFE material

Kind Regards

Phil

| IP: Logged

Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted December 09, 2015 10:54 AM

Email Brian Fretwell

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

One question, should the gate be rear sprung to keep focus on different thickness film bases?

| IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 09, 2015 11:09 AM

Edit/Delete Post

Sounds like you are inventing a Beaulieu Phil!
You too Brian!!

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

| IP: Logged

Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted December 09, 2015 11:52 AM

Email Phil Murat

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Almost , Andrew.
It seems that "Beaulieu 708" base was studied by "buisse & bottazzi"(Very closed design to 16mm machine....)

Brian, I assume this is the best way to keep focussing as long as possible during operating.

[ December 14, 2015, 04:43 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

| IP: Logged

Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted December 09, 2015 11:56 AM

Author's Homepage

Email Jean-Marc Toussaint

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Confimed, Phil. The 708 prototype was indeed created by Buisse & Botazzi. One of the ALICC members owns it now.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

| IP: Logged

Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted December 09, 2015 12:53 PM

Email Phil Murat

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

High Jean-Marc,

Does this Prototype include "Optical" reading?

That should be very interesting to post pictures here !!!

| IP: Logged

Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted December 09, 2015 02:46 PM

Author's Homepage

Email Jean-Marc Toussaint

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

No, it didn't. And as far as I remember, it was also missing its mag head. B&B solely worked on all the mechanical aspects of the machine. When I talked to the owner (we travelled together to the BFCC a couple of times some years ago), it had remained neglected for so many years that it required a lot of TLC to be back in shape.
Interesting trivia, there's also a "P" version of the 708 (as in projection only) without any recording capacities. Our friend Dominique and I saw it at the last Cinglés du Cinéma show. (Didn't you buy that thing Dominique?)

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

| IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted December 09, 2015 04:09 PM

Email Dominique De Bast

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

No, my Beaulieu comes from Austria :-) Your message reminds ùe that I saw several rarities in Argenteuil through the years. I hope this convention will last forever.

--------------------
Dominique

| IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 09, 2015 04:50 PM

Edit/Delete Post

Yes I saw the saw the photo of the P model on here also.
It looked a bare bones machine without the add ons from the Stereo mixer desk.

A great novelty though for whoever purchased it. There cannot be too many of these still in service now I would have thought.

As it was a stripped bare bones machine, it would have been perfect to have used as a prototype machine for a design project. The basics of all what is being spoken of here, is already in place!

Mechanically, just short of a 2/3 bladed adjustable shutter, but an easy fix and readily available for these.

The rest would just concentrate on the amplifier and recording possibilities and maybe an updated modern lamp system to include a ballast and diffuser.
Beyond that a digital sync pulse section on the mixer would be nice incorporating an input frame rate display and a "lock" button then to lock the projector speed to the digital input.

Now we are cooking!

[ December 10, 2015, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

| IP: Logged

Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted December 09, 2015 10:01 PM

Email Steven J Kirk

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Saw this telecine machine here. Branded as Reflecta:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/ Super-8-auf-DVD-digitalisieren-kopieren-uberspielen-in-HD-Qualitat-1-00-Min-/201473919403?hash=item2ee8c809ab:g:XKsAAOSwwE5WVy0S

Is this a 'new build'? A conversion. It occurs to me that with the right 'back half' you could put together a nice all-metal mechanism on the front, anything you like.

--------------------
VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

| IP: Logged

Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted December 10, 2015 11:16 AM

Email Phil Murat

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

[ December 14, 2015, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

| IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 10, 2015 11:30 AM

Edit/Delete Post

I very much look forward to them thanks Phil! ))

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

| IP: Logged

Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted December 10, 2015 11:55 AM

Email Phil Murat

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

[ December 14, 2015, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

| IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted December 10, 2015 03:31 PM

Email Dominique De Bast

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

English translation below.
Phil, ça a l'air compliqué la première fois de mettre des photos mais quand on suit la procédure expliquée, on y arrive. Le principal problème, c'est de réduire la taille des photos. Si tu as "Paint", c'est facile : ouvre une photo dans ce programme et utilise la fonction "redimensionner" jusqu'à ce que le forum accepte la taille (je passe de la taille 100 à la taille 10 et ça marche toujours). Bon courage.
Phil, it seems complicated the first time to put pictures but when you follow the explained process, it is possible. The main problem is to reduce the size of the pictures. If you have "Paint", it is easy : open a picture in that software and use the button "resize" until the forum accepts the size (I downsize from 100 to 10 and it always works. Good luck.

--------------------
Dominique

| IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 10, 2015 04:04 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

The resize option in 'Paint' tells you how many pixels wide and high your existing picture is. This forum only accepts pictures with a maximum of 550 pixels wide, height pixels are unlimited. So resize the picture to about 525 pixels wide and the forum will accept it.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

| IP: Logged

Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted December 10, 2015 04:19 PM

Email Brian Fretwell

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Just to add that my Norisound 412 had a rear sprung gate. I don't have a Beaulieu, unfortunately for me.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central

This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Move Topic

Delete Topic

next oldest topic

next newest topic

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2