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Author Topic: Exorbitant prices for super 8
Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4495
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 09, 2018 04:48 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
Hey Winbert, i dont think anyone is complaining, we are just making a point that "some" films are pretty ridiculous in what people are asking for price wise. i can fully understand titles where only a handful were printed, Those prices you quote from 76 were brand new films, these are second hand.
Anyway, as long as simpletons pay exorbitant prices i guess they will continue to ask for it. as for me,i have some superb 16mm titles and none have broken my bank. titles never to be seen on super 8 [Cool]

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: United Kingdom
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 - posted March 09, 2018 05:15 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Film collecting has always been expensive hobby and as stated if you compare the 1970s price right through to the Derann era and adjust for inflation the mad prices quoted in eBay look relevant and about right.

There is one significant difference you were buying brand new sealed titles unscratched, unfaded with comeback with a dealer if there was a fault.

The comparison with vinyl is not really accurate or correct. You can buy new record players and new vinyl on the high street and online easily.

The super 8 collecting scene is now like 16mm in that you can only collect titles from a certain time era and as the years pass this time difference now 15 years will increase It is wholly an used market you couldn't really say second hand as some title may have been through countless collectors. There are no new releases or titles to effectively buy for collectors.

Some titles will still retain and increase in value but a lot will reduce in value as they become only relevant to a certain type of older collector.

The bubble in prices is really all EBay driven. If they stopped free listings at some point and you paid fees to list films the start prices would drop dramatically.

Look at any dealers list and you will realise that most prices are virtually identical to what they were asking for 15-20 years ago.

Film collecting is a fantastic hobby but it shouldn't be an obsession. A mix of projection mediums is the best option. Dave you better get those £10 titles on eBay the older you get it will become harder for you when you downsize it is hard work.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted March 09, 2018 05:52 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
some good points there mike,
one thing to keep in mind,
Winbert, your argument of inflation works against you, your comparing with 1976, back then the dollar was worth about 40p so the cost of films worked out to be the same on both sides of the Atlantic, you are equating today's dollar against 1976, our pound was buoyant then as it was a few years ago.

[ March 13, 2018, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted March 09, 2018 06:19 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom that brandnew £29 is equal to £198 in 2018. So if at that time a 400' second hand was £5...then it is £30 now.

But we can still pay for £15 now at Barry's...so actually secondhand films price is cheaper now.

If you pay £300s for a secondhand F/L, I would say that is cheap.

Looking at the inflation rate cannot be seen only on one aspect (e.g salary). You need to see it from the whole aspects of life in the UK, even unto the global context.

As to "complaining" ...I can see from this post, not directed to you, but to the initial poster when saying:

quote:
Some of the prices for 8 mm features on the forum are very exorbitant. .... Super8 is a limited market lets see some reasonable prices.
What...do you want to get cheap price for films?...you never get it, especially in today's world when Derann is no longer exist.

Prints become rare and rarer...and the common market situation will tell when supply and demand are not equal, the price will go up.

If we cannot pay the today's film price...just turn our hobby to Bluray and I believe we can still get new and unfaded color films....plus dolby digital 5.1 sound.

Or if we still love the moving pictures, buy 16mm that is said to be cheaper...or 35mm if you want to get even cheaper.

They are better price, better picture...but we will deal with storage problem.

Our live is a matter of choice, as simple as that.

--------------------
Winbert

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Oliver F. R. Feld
Master Film Handler

Posts: 357
From: Berlin, Germany
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted March 10, 2018 12:19 AM      Profile for Oliver F. R. Feld   Email Oliver F. R. Feld   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The selling price of a feature at the time of its original release
has nothing to do with the collector‘s value of today.
People like me who were not able to buy new features back then
need to make their dreams come true today on an additional price.
Also a painting of Picasso was very cheap when it was new; today it’s different...
And it is okay for me to pay more than 15 years ago as long as the condition is very good to mint: and there are a lot of features in that condition still available.
A SPECIAL THANKS TO ALL THE COLLECTORS IN THIS FORUM WHO SELL THEIR FEATURES ON REASONABLE PRICES
But I think we all know 1 or 2 titles we would pay more to get it
And I think we know our limits

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Thomas Edwards
Film Handler

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From: London, UK
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 - posted March 10, 2018 01:06 AM      Profile for Thomas Edwards   Email Thomas Edwards   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I purchased the feature, High Society from a dealer for £160 lovely print saw the same film on the forum for £395.says it all.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted March 10, 2018 01:13 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Agree Oliver,
Thomas, thats much more like it,
and of course,as you say, i would also pay a little more for a top title, taking a step back it is of course everyones choice as to what they pay, if your on a good wage of say 60g or much more than 500 to a grand probably isnt much to you but my principles and normal workings man wage tells me what is sensible for a film so from this year of 2018 the chances of me owning jurasic park,james bond speed or the likes are nil. Funnily enough thats the same chance of super 8 only owners owning full features of witness,zulu and dances with wolves and all 3 of these together would cost less than one of some titles on super 8 [Big Grin] [Wink]

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
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 - posted March 10, 2018 02:45 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I remember you getting Stars Wars Windbert as I was friendly with the seller.

Frank was in a really bad state money wise etc and desperate and had no idea of its real value at the time.

I unfortunately had told him just after he sold it.

I`ve lost his contact now but hope hes doing better and OK.

I`m pretty sure someone has done a Digital remaster of the original version.

Best Mark.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted March 10, 2018 02:51 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I could be wrong here Mark but i dont think the original untouched version is availible on disc. Someone please correct me if i am wrong.

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
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 - posted March 10, 2018 02:53 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think its a download somewhere Tom.

I think it might be on laser disc, but probably a very high price if it is.

There is talk that Disney may release it officially too as well ( just possibly nothing yet ).

Best Mark.

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Brian Fretwell
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 - posted March 10, 2018 03:17 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe the original version was released on DVD, but it was just a port of the Laserdisc transfer, so not as good as current DVDs. there were complaints on DVD forums.

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Robert Crewdson
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From: UK
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 - posted March 10, 2018 04:00 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert, my job was factory work, my better rate of pay may have been nights, it's a long time ago. Then in the late 80s I got a job working nights in Tesco Supermarkets, and before I left they paid £7 an hour. Now we come forward to the beginning of 2017 and my wife applied for a job in what they call the hospitality sector, serving people, and they offered her £7 an hour, which she turned down. I'm sure that you would have to agree that the cost of living has risen in the last 30 or 40 years, but some of the wages offered are the same. I've explained everything as well as I can, I can't go through it all again. As the saying goes, You can lead a horse to water.............

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
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 - posted March 10, 2018 05:03 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I very much agree Robert.

People of usual means actual disposable income compared to what they need just to get by, for most people has totally vanished.

You could still buy a small house here for £2000 or less in 1978.

Same house £100 K plus now.

Hopefully films will go back down a little or actual Newbies in the hobby will be close to non more or less.

Best Mark.

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
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 - posted March 10, 2018 05:18 AM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think a few nutters have overpaid on eBay for a film and that tends to set the trend for future sales on and off Ebay,you hear eBay quotes all the time now at film fairs and carboot sales,sellers saying it sells for this price on eBay but I'm after this much,why would you sell for £120 when you could get more on an auction site,dealers sell on there to get top prices and don't offer them to customers first too,it's nothing to do with inflation it's about getting as much as you can for an item people want,eBay has the ability to achieve this due to the worldwide web,Mark

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Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

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From: Bromley, Kent
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 - posted March 10, 2018 05:41 AM      Profile for Allan Broadfield   Author's Homepage   Email Allan Broadfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My film mania started in the late forties as a kid, but for the second time I am considering selling the collection, partly due to space requirements and the convenience of digital projection.
However it's in the blood and I still drool over cine equipment I see online.
I sometimes think it's now too easy to have access to films on any media and remember how exciting it was to look through catalogues at those films I could never afford. History repeating itself!

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted March 10, 2018 05:47 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The spending power of the pound in the mid ‘70s
was greater than it is today, trivialities were affordable without credit, competition from dealers kept film prices lower than now, where one copy can command ridiculous money on ebay, then the dealers had many prints at reasonable prices, I lived through the ‘70S, so i draw on experience of that time in the UK.

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David Skillern
Master Film Handler

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From: South Wales
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 - posted March 10, 2018 05:53 AM      Profile for David Skillern   Email David Skillern   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi All,

I know some of the full length prints ive got on super 8 - titles like Alien, Aliens, Robocop, Predator, the 1st 3 Die Hard pictures and Star Trek Generations - if i was to sell - i might get decent prices but I doubt if I could then replace them. I think ill start viewing my collection now - instead of stockpiling and enjoy what ive bought over the years.

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1133
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
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 - posted March 10, 2018 06:01 AM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David
That's about the best reply,enjoy what you have as I've learnt that,selling them now it's doubtful you will replace them in the future. The only other thing I can add is paying £500 to £1000 now for any print you would be scared to play it,Mark

--------------------
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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4495
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 10, 2018 06:26 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David/Mark,
Perfect answers on both there. We are still viewing out entire super 8 collection and still not halfway through yet. We are still sliwly offloading some super 8s in order to buy a few 16s but like you say, we are happy with out collections now and have no need to go OTT to buy.
Just a few more good 16s and i will be forever pleased. I dont take too much to please, i,m anyones for a custard tart [Big Grin]

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted March 10, 2018 06:41 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess this is going to be my last post. This type of post of complaining the today's film price has been in this forum for about 3 times. This is kind of boring now as boring as digital vs. film post.

Whatever you are going to say about the UK domestic condition on the wages, I will not change my statement that:

a. Because of the inflation rate, the value of £150 in 1980 is equal to £611.49 in 2018. This has been calculated by the economists not a film collector. You pay £350 for a F/L now is considered cheap.

b. You don't want to pay £350 for a F/L...fine...you can wait, there is no harm, but someone else will pay. It is nothing to do with you and you cannot blame the seller nor the buyer. It is a free market, please respect it.

c. After a long period of waiting and the said title does not come up at your desired price, you can find an alternative, such as buying 16mm, 35mm or a £3 DVD. Whatever your choice that is fine too. as long as you can watch films.

Our life is very short, please make everything simple.

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1133
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
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 - posted March 10, 2018 06:59 AM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's short and simple Winbert.

A) buy it

B) don't buy it

Mark

--------------------
Elmo GS1200 1.0 lens
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Elmo 16CL
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Dave Groves
Master Film Handler

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From: Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
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 - posted March 10, 2018 07:42 AM      Profile for Dave Groves   Email Dave Groves   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It seemed to me that the better titles went for high prices leaving the b movies selling cheap. But now even some of these are going at far higher prices. A two minute trailer for $35 is rather more than I'm used to paying, but add on import duty and Post Office handling fees and it makes any blu-ray, however expensive, an absolute bargain. We're entering the period where prints are being sold with colour fade, vinegar and wear and tear and pieces missing and, because nothing new is ever likely to appear again, we take a chance every time we buy anything. Too many are selling unviewed prints as 'I have no projector to check'. Now why didn't I have an interest in keeping goldfish?

--------------------
Dave

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Dave Groves
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 - posted March 11, 2018 09:07 AM      Profile for Dave Groves   Email Dave Groves   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert, renting a house here is astonishing. My son had a half decent flat which cost £750 a month. When he left last year it went up to £850. As you say demand sets the price. And try buying one. My paper tells me that 2 out of every five young people will never save enough for a down payment on one. The essentials claim a larger proportion of income than they used to so there is less for hobbies like ours. Dealers have plenty of B movies and never heard of titles quite cheap but I can watch creaky old stuff in pristine condition on the 'Talking pictures' channel. If we could go down to HMV (a c.d./dvd. shop) and buy prints like we can blu-rays, they would cost production+profit, and they'd be new. Now we're left foraging for decent stuff among an increasing amount of highly priced rubbish because that's all there is. Scarcity pushes prices ever upwards. It doesn't make them worth the price.

--------------------
Dave

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: United Kingdom
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 - posted March 11, 2018 11:37 AM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Comparing 1970s or 1990s super 8 prices and adding inflation on to those prices does not explain the prices some titles are getting . Certain genres such as Horror, Science Fiction James Bond Indiana Jones etc will always command higher prices. Other titles such as westerns musicals war movies dramas etc will fall in price. You could nearly draw a line about anything pre 1970 that will become harder to sell as the years go by. There is a big genre of film memorabilia collectors brought in by eBay that has distorted prices but the unfortunate thing is these buyers don't project and they will not sell again unless they realise an even bigger profit hence the wingnut prices some are asking for . Which sadly will out of the reach for most if not all film collectors. Look what happened to film posters as an example of what will be happening in the future but remember it will only be selective. Shiny labelling and original packaging will have more of input on the price that the condition of the film.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted March 11, 2018 11:45 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thats exactly right Mike [Wink]

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