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Author Topic: Exorbitant prices for super 8
Burton Sundquist
Master Film Handler

Posts: 318
From: Burnaby, B.C. Canada
Registered: Feb 2017


 - posted March 11, 2018 12:57 PM      Profile for Burton Sundquist   Email Burton Sundquist   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have found that MOST features offered for sale on this forum to be at a reasonable price. Ebay has more price irregularities due to the bidding structure. For example, the Red Fox LPP feature The Adventures of Robin Hood sold for $417 last July,
then in another auction in September the same film ( not the same print ) went for $695. In December, Derann Goldfinger was won for $325, and just this week the same print sold for $595
We are lucky here to have the forum sales rules where the seller lists the asking price for their print, and no bidding is involved.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 11, 2018 02:36 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You guys can understand why the price of houses is rocketing in 2018 compared to 1970s, but don't want to accept the same case for 8mm.

The above cases are to explain how the inflation rate plus unrenewable resources resulting the price increase because of the imbalance between supply and demand.

Those have been explained in my previous posts.

Tell me where people can get more lands if the size of country never change? As well as where can we buy brandnew 8mm titles? None...

Yes...my 3 options above can be summarized by two...buy or don't buy.

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Winbert

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted March 11, 2018 03:46 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For me Winbert the point is that particularly for the young its becoming a no go.

My eldest son would love to do cine properly, he simply can`t. 3 children and at present 4 jobs between them and they just about sort of scrape by.

Its things like the crazy house prices and cost of living not helping.

What peole are getting at is that many people have less money to spend on an expensive hobby as they are just getting by cost of living wise.

If some one has lots of films they bought cheaply and wants to feel they are wealthy on a stash of priceless items, well fair enough.

But I think the crazy prices are taking something away from the hobby really.

Its eroding some of the good feel of it I think.

Best Mark.

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Jason Smith
Master Film Handler

Posts: 358
From: Tohoku, Japan
Registered: Oct 2015


 - posted March 11, 2018 04:16 PM      Profile for Jason Smith     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This hobby has always been for the rich. Some of us may be well off but I doubt too many of us our rich. The price charged for Super 8 features in Japan ranged from 60,000-80,000 Japanese Yen in the 1970s.

70,000 Japanese yen in 1975 or about $228 USD could purchase a feature.

According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index, the dollar experienced an average inflation rate of 3.67% per year. Prices in 2017 were 355.0% higher than prices in 1975.

In other words, $228 in the year 1975 is equivalent in purchasing power to $1,037.38 in 2017, a difference of $809.38 over 42 years.

It is really difficult for me to find any Super 8 features that were released in Japan because not that many were sold in the 1970s. Plenty of companies made them but the cost to purchase a full length feature was too expensive for most households.

Digests were prices more affordably here and hence there are more digests to purchase at a reasonable price.

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted March 11, 2018 04:54 PM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok films going for £500 plus but how would you explain Terminator 2 selling for £2500,that's not inflation that's pure madness,a truly fine example of super 8 gone bonkers,Mark

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 11, 2018 04:58 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You nailed it Jason.

That is exactly I was saying (and Alan) that this used to be a hobby for rich families. Can you imagine to spend $54 for a 16 minutes show...unbelievable!!! ...(without need to calculate inflation rate which make it to become $205) spending $54 does still sound very expensive for a tertiary need, even for today's standard.

Now for a 600' brand new "True Lies" is $260 (right price after calculating the inflation rate compared to what they charge in 1980). I did not buy it, because I am not a rich person plus I have another more important things to spend. But this hobby now is no longer for the riches because rich people will play Bluray with HD 4K projector instead.

So this is like golfing that used to be only for the riches but now ordinary people can also play, but still the ordinary need to pay from their deep pocket to enjoy it.

Suddenly we complain why it becomes so expensive now?...it is expensive from a long time ago.

As for Terminator 2 selling for £2500 if it is truly happened, it is once for a while, not everyday's price. You cannot take it into general case, surely.

quote:
My eldest son would love to do cine properly, he simply can`t. 3 children and at present 4 jobs between them and they just about sort of scrape by.
Mark, I believe your son really loves cine but still have more priority in his lives. So he did not want to spend all his pocket money for cine. But as I said in the earliest, there are young new collectors who do not bother spending $$$ buying those Derann's used prints. Why? because they have more money. They are richer than us.

cheers,

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Winbert

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted March 11, 2018 05:42 PM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert,
Exorbitant prices for super 8 is the title of this thread so £2500 for Terminator 2 certainly fits this topic.

Also the True Lies price is for a new print which would be today's price granted but anyone seeing that price who wasn't in the hobby would be surprised,the high price in my opinion isn't inflation it's more the lack of anyone producing new prints so prices will go up,since Derann finished the 600ft release price is now over treble,that's greed not inflation,Mark

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 11, 2018 06:52 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Exorbitant prices for super 8 is the title of this thread so £2500 for Terminator 2 certainly fits this topic.

Show me the link where a Terminator 2 sold for that price.

...and I guess if Arnold himself gave a signature on the above reel will make the price even to become £4500... so there is always an exception.

But I should say that one case to draw a conclusion for all cases, that is what we call "logical fallacy" (please click it for wikipedia on that matter)

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Winbert

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Jason Smith
Master Film Handler

Posts: 358
From: Tohoku, Japan
Registered: Oct 2015


 - posted March 11, 2018 07:36 PM      Profile for Jason Smith     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok films going for £500 plus but how would you explain Terminator 2 selling for £2500,that's not inflation that's pure madness,a truly fine example of super 8 gone bonkers,Mark

I agree with you on that. The problem is that Super 8 collectors around the world owe Derann and the UK a lot of thanks. The quality of the prints Derann brought us is amazing.

The problem with titles like Terminator II is that it is a print that many people want. Sometimes at any cost.

I see a lot of discussion here about how high prices have discouraged new people from getting into the hobby. The bigger problem is that newer people like myself that got into the hobby (I am going on 2 1/2 years) or returnees to the hobby have unfortunately driven up prices.

I am not bidding up prices but more competition for fewer top shelf and popular titles makes some sellers realize they can charge more. If there were less collectors around then prices on eBay would go down.

If you are limiting yourself to Derann features on Super 8 and you are looking for Predator, Alien, Star Wars, Terminator II then Super 8 collecting is expensive.

I have started to branch into 16mm and look for titles that suit my interests and there are plenty of titles at afforable prices.

In the past year, I have seen several Derann Super 8 features on eBay while their 35mm equivalents were also for sell on eBay. The Derann prints were close to the cost of the 35mm prints.

Again, if we want to blame anyone for the price of Super 8 prices going up...lets blame all of the new collectors like me or returnees to the hobby who sold all of their prints. Less competition for prints would bring down prices.

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Dave Groves
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 508
From: Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
Registered: Feb 2015


 - posted March 12, 2018 05:16 AM      Profile for Dave Groves   Email Dave Groves   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Throughout the 90's you could hardly call 16mm a hobby. It was almost impossible to buy outright and what was available was expensive. Then the libraries all closed and (generally) old titles came onto the market with a smattering of newer titles. Super 8 has more of a hobby history as films were produced specifically for collectors. Prices were affordable especially if you used Derann's lay by system. Then digital took a large chunk of the market, film prints became less affordable as dealers closed, and then film itself disappeared. A perfect situation to encourage high prices for one off titles. We had it good for a while but the 'golden' days are disappearing. Let's enjoy what we've got and buy what we can afford. I doubt a single one of us would expect less than the highest bidder will pay for our prints. It's what happens in a market dealing with one off's I suppose.

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Dave

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted March 12, 2018 06:53 AM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
...and I guess if Arnold himself gave a signature on the above reel will make the price even to become £4500... so there is always an exception. 

No exception or signature but that's what the print sold for,again an example of super 8 gone mad,I don't have a link for it but it's on this forum somewhere Winbert,Mark

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 12, 2018 07:25 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As it happens Mark, here is another copy for sale,
Not mine i hasten to add,
Oh and it has marks throughout by the looks of it, the first one went for 1800 odd and that had green scratches and lines etc,(as the ad stated) this one has awful marks throughout,
Mine is re-recorded to stereo, has a great image, (a few light black lines occasionally on the very far right) but for a couple of minutes during the last 100ft there is an image fault where it goes in and out of focus for a couple of minutes. The actual print is not damaged, this is within the print itself and its never bothered me. The quality is A1, so mine must be worth a bob or two if the last ones sold like this with all the problems they had. Inflation my ass! It's the titles.
At a guess looking at the videos which the seller has put up, it must have been a white box special. I couldn't sit through this.

https://www.ebay.c o.uk/itm/Super-8mm-Terminator-2-LPP-Scope-Full-Feature-Film-Derann/183110786680?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted March 12, 2018 09:34 AM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom
Yes a sought after film but paying over £360 so far for it with those marks you must be mad,this is exactly what this thread is about. I wouldn't pay it and I'm with you Tom on this,those marks would do your head in on a £100 feature let alone whatever this print goes for,the seller couldn't do anymore to show and describe it honestly so whoever buys it certainly needs their head testing,again nothing to do with inflation but madness!! Mark.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 12, 2018 09:51 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
this is exactly what this thread is about
Mark and Tom,

Why you guys now are trying to shift the discussion to become "bad print with exorbitant price"?? [Confused]

The initial poster was exactly saying he bought a good print at half price from a forum sale (which is also a good print).

Keep the discussion on track please.

And Mark if you cannot provide the link of £2500 for Terminator 2, do not use that as a base of your argument.

You don't believe in the inflation rate but can understand the price of brandnew 600' "True Lies" which is $260 now.

In 1978 the price of 400' is $50-54 making 600" would become around $76. Do the math with the inflation rate, you will get almost the same value to what the price of True Lies now.

Finally, I would kindly ask, if you are going to sell your prints, pleae do not list them at Ebay, sell them here, in this forum, at low price please.
[Razz]

Cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted March 12, 2018 10:11 AM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert
So now if anyone on here cannot prove what they have seen it cannot be discussed on here,Is that what you are saying?

I am not trying to change the title of the thread either,surely paying top money for a bad print is worse? It is clearly a case of exuberance as in the thread title,Mark

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 12, 2018 10:36 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, I am not interested to discuss hearsay.

If we let those hearsays here, somebody can also say "hey I found someone selling Die Hard for £75".

When we ask where is the link...he only say "I found in a forum that I cannot longer remember"

So what is the point? To make people happy that the price of 8mm is now decreasing? (Or in the other way around to make people having more stress that now a print cost £2500?).

I also miss those days when a second hand Derann list has £2-5 for a 400' color and sound...but I take it will no longer happen now.

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Winbert

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted March 12, 2018 10:46 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Remember though Winbert many films and equipment are still sold direct from friend to friend, no internet link exists, so any prices quoted may well be truthful without a provable link.

Kevin

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted March 12, 2018 10:50 AM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's now called hearsay Kevin so cannot be discussed,it seems it's only Winbert's opinion and explanation that counts now, Mark

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
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 - posted March 12, 2018 11:00 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hopefully that will never be the case here Mark - having to provide a provable trail of all film and equipment transactions and prices before any discussion is allowed sounds like Big Brother calling to me.

Kevin

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
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 - posted March 12, 2018 11:09 AM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think many collectors couldn't prove where,when and how much they paid for items over the years,you buy at a film fair and never get a reciept,Mark

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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 - posted March 12, 2018 11:20 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, at least that Terminator 2 is at a halfway decent starting price, (at 500.00), but it's all up to demand.If the right title comes up, watch the bids sky rocket.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 12, 2018 11:59 AM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a Jason & the Argonauts box signed by Ray Harryhausen straight after Ray & his wife plus audience had just watched the super 8 feature in a home cinema, This was in 1987 when Ray was largely forgotten by his industry I suppose Arnie has added so much to the world!!!

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted March 12, 2018 12:06 PM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Have you got photographic evidence Mike of Ray signing the box? Just hearsay otherwise according to some members(see above). What a nice souvenir for you to Have,was that at the Derann convention when Ray was guest of honour?Mark

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Mike Newell
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 - posted March 12, 2018 01:32 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mark

This was the pre mobile age remember when people listened as supposed to taking selfies. I would likely have his DNA on the box for analysis. It was actually an afterthought by another collector and it was personally signed to me so sentimental. Tudor Cinema Comber was the location I did get Christopher Lee's signature on my Corgi James Bond box.
I do have a photo of that occasion He went into a fit of laughter when he saw the Man with the Golden Gun figure and said "Is that really Me"!!

Mike

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted March 12, 2018 01:41 PM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mike,
I can imagine Christopher Lee laughing away at his figure,nice story there. No DNA needed on my account but have it ready in case your asked ha ha!!!Mark

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