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Author Topic: Exorbitant prices for super 8
Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 12, 2018 03:38 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
from friend to friend, no internet link exists, so any prices quoted may well be truthful without a provable link
Kevin,

This is not friend to friend sales. But as Mark has pointed out:

quote:
I don't have a link for it but it's on this forum somewhere
Now, Mark, if you do not have a link, just say what Forum is that a Terimiator 2 sold for £2500 ...16mmfilmtalk? small format? 35mmcinematographer?...what? I believe if that exist, it is once for a while, not everyday's price.

But as Jason has said and admitted that some new collectors (include him) were more brave than those old collectors in spending money for 8mm films. That is a reality, why we need to blame sellers?

I am sorry for my little bit blatant statement here, I knew Mark is also on Ebay (m*singer) as well as Tom (ff*). Don't be so hypocrite now, we are all happy when our films are sold for a very good price. That is why we are on Ebay.

If you are going to lower the price of 8mm in 2018, simply put your films in this forum at Derann's 2004 second hand price with £2-5 for a 400' color and sound. I guess you will help other fellow collectors. Will you?

I think that will be my last statement.

--------------------
Winbert

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted March 12, 2018 04:10 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I can honestly say that much as I love real film.

Anything much above £300 for T2 in Minty order, then pass me the Blu Ray Quickly please.

Non of these really silly out of control super 8 prices have much to do with film collecting, its more about Obsession.

Granted most people have lost God etc so need something to take thier minds off thier own fragility.

But blimey.

Thank goodness for the real genuine people still in the hobby.

I do wonder if Derann were still around, or suddenly somehow back on the scene if people would buy from them more than they did in the latter years.

Probably not.

Human Pyschology is a strange old business and you can see the same sort of nonsense in cars, motorbikes and various collectibles.

But its only generally takes away from things, pure monetary value isn`t the be all and end all.

Just becuase a thing costs more, it doesn`t mean its necessarily worth more.

Best Mark.

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted March 12, 2018 04:13 PM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've never said I haven't used eBay to sell films before Winbert but I've never sold anything for a high price on there either so I'm not being a hypocrite,it's not about me on this thread or any specific member it's about high prices of super 8,I've given my thoughts on this now and where and why prices have risen so much, it's just one person's view out of many on here,if your not agreeable with my opinion then that's fine but everything I've said you seem to find a different take on it,I should just agree it's inflation that's driven prices up and everything will be fine,Mark

--------------------
Elmo GS1200 1.0 lens
Elmo ST1200HD 1.1 lens
Sankyo 800 1.0 lens
Elmo 16CL
Elf NT1

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 12, 2018 04:21 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Links, no links, hearsay? Inflation,

Winbert said previously,
You guys can understand why the price of houses is rocketing in 2018 compared to 1970s, but don't want to accept the same case for 8mm.

Whats house prices got to do with super 8?

Anyway, ive read enough bollocks on this thread now, today's prices are purely about supply and demand BUT, there are dingalings selling films who clearly have no idea about what they have, E bay, (as i said years ago) may be a source of some good stuff but it's also a place where idiots try making a quick buck.
There is one huge difference now,
the Germans are the only game in town that are printing film, but that’s come to a halt through no sound heads, that little distraction would not have deterred Derek Simmons, he would have rigged up 8mm projectors for single transfer, just like he did in his early days of Derann.

Keep it cine old bean [Wink]

[ March 13, 2018, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted March 12, 2018 05:04 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Do Bucks still print poly super 8, could they ?

Surely there must be a way super 8 prints can be made at cost with no profit by a small cooperative based on the forum etc etc.

If there really is growing demand etc etc.

Its such a shame Deranns negatives went in to the ground.

Maybe a small scale set up like that could work or happen.

Collector based for the love of the hobby etc.

Just a thought.

Best Mark.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 12, 2018 05:15 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
unfortunately there just isnt enough in cine for anyone to make new releases Mark. you would need good sources of material and the whole process would make films out of reach for most.
apart from that Mark, we are in 2018 and the digital way of projecting,(as you know) is now so cheap and quality so good why on earth would anyone pay crazy money for there favourite movies?
if the new Minions cartoon is going to cost around £65 for 5 minutes then a feature running 90 minutes would be around 1200.
would you pay that? i know i wouldn't. think how many blu rays you could buy and project onto the same big screen for that. 150 titles or more. [Wink]

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted March 12, 2018 05:38 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh I agree Tom, but the possible 400 digest that was mooted Via Steve O might be interesting.

Anyone have any news on the title ?

Best Mark.

PS dvds from about 30p 2nd hand each beat most super 8 film via LCD.

It was just a thought.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 12, 2018 05:51 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Of course all this is irrelevant to the price of super 8 films, its interesting to see the latest copy of T2 only sold for a reasonable
£385 and a few pence, less his rip off ebay and paypal fees by the very big corporation company of the US and A [Wink]
this throws this conversation out the window now as i guess no one wanted it enough to pay the last price in excess of 1800.00
does this mean film prices are now falling [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

Lighten up now [Wink]

[ March 13, 2018, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 12, 2018 06:20 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The highest I paid for Derann prints was about £200 with 20% discount you could obtain from buying from other dealers. I couldn't really justify paying more than £300 for a feature then and honestly even today couldn't justify it.

Considering the quality of prints bring offered blips negative marks included from the one source most without stripe or need recorded in English with stripe that may or may not come off at some point in the future. It would a brave collector or an eternal optimist to speculate spending the fantasy figures being bandied about.

The days of new super 8 releases are effectively over.but can't wait for the £500 new 400ft digest as you know when you factor in inflation it will be a bargain.

🤑🤑🤑🤑

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 12, 2018 06:29 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i will take six please [Big Grin]
seriously though, one of the reasons i ventured into 16mm was because of the prices the super 8 features i wanted were going for, if you could get one. also, the films i now have on 16 are,(except two tiles we have), simply not on super 8 at all. There is more choice and better pricing and every print is pin sharp, many 8mm titles i have bought over the last two years are far from ideal for the monies paid out.
we love our collections on both gauges and will continue to look after them but as it stands paying out for 8mm films which have scratches,fade or both is no longer something we are prepared to do. i like the titles i am finding on 16 and many many films on this gauge are well under a ton. im not saying 16 is without its problems but there's a lot more titles for a hell of a lot less cash. [Wink]

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Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
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 - posted March 12, 2018 06:29 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Of course, if you just want to watch films for their content as opposed to picture and sound quality, there's YouTube. With a fast fibre connection, it's like watching a DVD. The material available for free is staggering like full length versions of L & H in "A Chump at Oxford", "Way Out West" and "Sons of the Desert" to name but a few.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted March 12, 2018 06:54 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
and of course this to can be projected onto a big home screen [Roll Eyes]

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Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted March 12, 2018 08:17 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The films on YouTube can be easily downloaded onto your computer for free in whatever format you prefer as well.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted March 13, 2018 04:44 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doug must be on his vacation there has been so much near political and headache inducing country specific financial waffle on this thread I'm amazed it is still open.

Hopefully I punctuated that sentence correctly it was a long one!

Kevin

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted March 13, 2018 04:58 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I still like the idea of the forum doing a release of its own.

Be something we could I am sure if we got on with it.

In fact I wish we had kept the Tarrantino trailers idea in house and gone with it as I located one of them.

Best Mark.

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 13, 2018 07:39 AM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can we start a list of trailers to release now?

Kevin your sentence is lovely it does strays a bit towards the end but is concise and to the point compared to others. Don't you just love it when Doug heads to his basement must be similar to Ian's shed.

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 13, 2018 09:26 AM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I feel a chorus of "Heal the World" or "I would like to buy the World a Coke" coming on [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes]

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted March 13, 2018 10:42 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Winbert its not about the inflation rate as such Tom is talking about.

Its more about disposable income, that is the money left after ( if any at all or even less !!! ) basic living costs is going down fast for ordinary people here.

Conversely its going up even faster for those at the top end of society.

Globalization is actually part of that happening as well.

Not being political as such, its just the way its going in the UK very much, and other countries too.

Best Mark.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

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From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 13, 2018 11:03 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Doug must be on his vacation there has been so much near political and headache inducing country specific financial waffle on this thread I'm amazed it is still open."

Yes Kevin, I was away for a bit. Instead of closing the thread I have gone through it and removed posts that were obviously political, or just nasty.

I looked in on this thread early on, everything was fine and then suddenly it caught fire!

To go back to Thomas's original post: Yes, there are sellers who value their prints highly and list them for sale at a price they think collectors will pay. It's been said before...if it's too high, the film will not sell and the price should come down. Otherwise that print and that owner will be growing old together.

Mark T.,
Unfortunately there is no inexpensive way (that I'm aware of) to put out a release. I know that the price of the new 600' releases barely cover the production costs. I am amazed and grateful that these are still being put out.

Doug

[ March 13, 2018, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]

--------------------
I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted March 13, 2018 11:28 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I liked that post by you Mark ...

I'm betting that if Derann were still open today, they might well have done a little more business, as a brand new feature, never screened, from Derann films directly, would actually sell for less than a used print of the same title would off ebay! [Frown] [Smile]

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 13, 2018 02:36 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Doug for removing all the politic talks.

quote:
Winbert its not about the inflation rate as such Tom is talking about.
It is hard to explain how inflation rate trigger the increase of the price.

I am trying to explain it as simple as possible for laymen like us, and this is going to be my last post.

In 1970 oil price is $3.39/barrel

Today in 2018 is $42/barrel.

Most of our basic needs are driven by oil price and that also include our lovely hobby, super 8mm.

So expecting the old day's prices in 2018 is barely possible.

Cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted March 13, 2018 03:07 PM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Doug good to have you back everyone will behave again now (for a while at least).

I kind of see where Winbert is coming from but never liked the term Layman as it implies that anyone not professionally qualified in a subject is simply too stupid to contribute.

So as an ex business man (private sector and proud of it) long time customer service and technical service chappie, I reckon the reasons for exorbitant film prices are:

1. Fools and their money are easily parted and:

2. A Film collector often spends more time and money 'tending to' films and projector needs than their wife's.

The latter is cheaper (free last time I checked) and far more fun and good for you both than the former.

Kevin

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted March 13, 2018 06:07 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Kevin well there has been many a wife I am sure sold off the Hubby`s film collection for something like DVDs would go for, given them away or even had them taken to the tip.

A lot of partners or wives etc never know how much real films cost us lot as we know.

I know I`ve said before I can Um and Ah about much needed things for life etc that are even say £10 or £20, or even less, but be offered a certain film, and all heck etc breaks loose.

I often feel a bit guilty about my film hobby with having children and they now starting that too.

But I just can`t kick it so keep it very small scale.

So now one projector for me, one for my son and maybe we might go mad and get a shared spare at some point if a decent cheap one comes up.

When I was still single, well in a single patch ( late 80`s ) I must admit I had gone a bit crackers. 16mm and standard 8 and super 8, various machines and films etc. My house was heaving, but they were pretty reasonably priced. Great fun etc.

But then things changed quite dramatically.

Its a fully nutty, and quite consuming hobby this one at times, and I`m really not that sure why.

And I still think its a shame if we let money speak louder than the fun etc in the hobby.

Best Mark.

PS yes Osi, Derann if only !!!

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 13, 2018 07:07 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark

That was as coherent as your Martians in Rosie's toilet post which by some weird coincidence was exactly 14 years ago. You know there is a solar storm tomorrow and apparently rumblings in Yellowstone Park today. Hope, Yogi Bear and Boo Boo are okay. Have they come out yet as a couple. If the lights go out and the human race goes back to the Stone Age at least they will be able to rebuild civilisation using these posts when somebody remembers the password to iCloud I Think somebody said it was "bollocks" hopefully all lower case.

Anyway Happy Martian Anniversary.

Mike

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted March 13, 2018 08:18 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You`ve been rubbing your buttocks with your 400 feet copies of the Rose again Mike.

You know it sets off your Hyper Twatier Syndrome.

Best Mark.

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