8mm Forum: Spools or Reels?

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Topic: Spools or Reels?

David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted June 11, 2017 04:30 AM

The old 4x400ft features were advertised as 8 reelers. Here's a bargain reel/spool Schneider

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted June 11, 2017 04:36 AM

For what it's worth, in Ireland we have always called them reels.
I don't see that it matters, to be honest.

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Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010

posted June 11, 2017 04:47 AM

In the UK we also refer to a film in terms of reels.
I have never seen a film advertised as for instance '3 x 4 spools'.
.A 'spool' I have only seen mentioned in regard to an empty spool, and then more often refered to as an empty reel.
Working as a projectionist years ago we would fetch the next reel from the cabinet, and loading the next weeks programme may be refered to as 'spooling up' or 'spooling off' at the end of the run.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted June 11, 2017 05:11 AM

Doug, thank you for appropriately moving this conversation.

To quote Michael, "I don't see that it matters to be honest", and I agree, so lets keep it light hearted.

But, for example, a 6 reel version of a Marketing film is on 3, er, reels.

So it's not roughly 3 x 400ft, it's actually 3 x 200ft in length?

No, apparently not. It's on 3 plastic things with film on them...the length? Who knows?

Just kidding guys; this thread has proved interesting if nothing else. [Smile]

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted June 11, 2017 03:09 PM

quote:
But, for example, a 6 reel version of a Marketing film is on 3, er, reels.

Now this does annoy me. I could never understand why they used three reels when they fitted on two. Must have been down to marketing.

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted June 11, 2017 03:34 PM

Doug, Posso wrote "spool" on the famous red boxes. I don't know if this European reputaded make has been present on the American market.

[ June 11, 2017, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Dominique De Bast ]

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Dominique

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted June 11, 2017 04:07 PM

Next topic, 'lace' or 'thread'!

In fact many things have more than one word for the same thing in English, and I'm sure in other languages too. After all do you receive a 'parcel' or a 'package' in the post, sorry in the mail...

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016

posted June 11, 2017 04:28 PM

So, would it be grammatically incorrect to say that.... "The film on my reel unraveled onto the floor so I had to spool it up again?"

Steven - you could use a third word......."loaded."

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"My name is for my friends!"

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 11, 2017 04:28 PM

quote:
I could never understand why they used three reels when they fitted on two. Must have been down to marketing.

David, I belive this is back to the consumer's mindset at that time regarding the price. For a 400' reel with acetate base was about US$40-60 (color and sound) depending on the title, print quality and the actual film length (usualy between 320 ft to 375ft). If we take the max price and length of film, this means the cost was about $0.16/feet.

Now back to Marketing Films, they used polyester film which is 25% thinner than acetate for the same length. If they fill a 400' reel until the edge (very full), the actual lenght has actually already been 533 ft of film.

That consumer mindset regarding the price of a full 400', would not be sucessfully beaten by Marketing if they sold a full 400' polyester film at $85. This would be considered too expensive although buyer would get longer films but majority would not understand this.

So the best way was to sell a look a like 300 ft of acetate but actually was 375 feet of polyester and packed them on to 3 reels like other companies which still used acetate base film. So they could sell at the same price with other companies.

cheers,

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Winbert

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 11, 2017 05:02 PM

I've always used the term reel or reels in regard to film storage. Spools I would associate with textiles.

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted June 11, 2017 06:04 PM

My Eumig stuff says

Universal projection "Spool" Europa 400 feet with library box for Super-Single and Standard 8....check your Eumig stuff..

As stated on the boxes I have on some Std 8mm are... Spulen Bobines Spools Made in France.

[Smile]

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 11, 2017 06:51 PM

Never used Eumig . Elmo were always reels as where Bounum reels and cans from Austria never spools Always liked the term bobines.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted June 12, 2017 07:10 AM

Hang on, years ago I used to rent films off a chap that designated the hire cost in terms of film length...in reels.

So one reel was 200ft.

Hiring, say a Walton 4 x 400ft was therefore 8 reels.

But when it arrived it was on...4 reels / spool things!?

I should have asked for a 50% refund!

[Smile]

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted June 12, 2017 09:46 AM

Next topic, 'lace' or 'thread'!

I lace up my Fumeo because it is manual no auto, but my ELMO I thread because it is auto thread.

I remember the first time I visited America LAX. Going through immigration/customs I had a lot of super 8 film and a cine camera. When he asked what's that I said a cine camera, his words A What? Oh you call them movie camera's over here. Holding the queue up we had a nice chat about different names for things. His last one really made me laugh. Well what do you call stockings and suspenders that women wear? At last common ground.

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 12, 2017 12:51 PM

I always thread or auto thread. 📽📽 Do my laces in the morning and at night. Ah cine cameras or movie cameras alway guaranteed to get you extra special attention going through airports👮👮👮👮

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Gary Schreffler
Film Handler

Posts: 33
From: North Potomac, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 2017

posted June 12, 2017 05:54 PM

The National Archives only lists, from what I saw, reels of films. I can't recall ever seeing a spool of film.

This thread reminds me of chips. When ordering, what arrives on your plate greatly depends on what side of the Atlantic you are sitting...

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My God; It's Full Of Stars!

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted June 12, 2017 06:48 PM

This American webstite uses the word "spool". Maybe it depends on the areas...
Edit : I've realized that I stupidely forgot to put the link. I don't remember to which US site I was refering but I found this :

http://www.spectrafilmandvideo.com/Film.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16mm-kodak-cine-spool-2-3-4-inch-film-spool-vintage-film-cinema-/262992591846

http://www.yalefilmandvideo.com/filmprocessing8mm.php?expandable=2 (they use the words "roll" and "spool".

This one is Australian :

http://www.cameratim.com/business/film-length-tables

[ June 20, 2017, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Dominique De Bast ]

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Dominique

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Simon Wyss
Film Handler

Posts: 78
From: Äsch, Switzerland
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 13, 2017 01:51 AM

With Eastman-Kodak spools belong to cameras and reels to projectors, simple as that. A spool, if at all, has solid flanges for light protection, reels generally have open-worked ones.

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted June 20, 2017 05:52 PM

I shall join the fray. Why not?

Nobody's mentioned the term "roll." That's quite relevant. See, if a "reel" is a 200-foot length, then it corresponds to the original concept of "reel" in the nitrate days being 1000 feet and 10-15 minutes run time, depending on projection speed. However, 2K "reels" came into use shortly thereafter, but the 20-minute Laurel and Hardy comedies (for example) are considered "2-reelers" even if supplied on a 2000-foot, er, device.

So "rolls" came along when printing down to 16mm because, as you well know, you can run 40 to 50 minutes comfortably on a 1,600-footer, and they'd identify THOSE compilations as "rolls." Take a look on leaders and you'll see markings like "Roll 1 Reels 1-2-3-4-5-6" or such.

Never seen the work "spool" on any leader, American can, nor eBay ad, sorry to say Rob.

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted June 21, 2017 03:18 AM

The labels on Derann/Walton/Techno releases always seemed to use the word "Part" 1,2,3 etc on the boxes rather than reel or spool a 400ft or 600ft part. So no help from them on this.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted June 21, 2017 05:15 AM

Sorry Simon,

"With Eastman-Kodak spools belong to cameras and reels to projectors, simple as that. A spool, if at all, has solid flanges for light protection, reels generally have open-worked ones."

What???

So as I now know, I put a light proof spool of film in my camera, with a reel of film on it (Oh crickey, Bill, it might be a roll), then when I get it back on it's reel, it's a reel of film on a reel, or a roll of film on a reel, or is it a part? I don't know any longer...then project it using a take-up spool. NO! Take-up REEL! Or something...

[Smile]

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 21, 2017 05:53 AM

It's one of those spanner/wrench kinds of discussions.

What if we say they are synonyms and call it a draw? (or even a tie, stalemate or impasse?)

In any case, it' a little late to convince a couple of hundred million people they are wrong either way.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted June 21, 2017 06:01 AM

Oh no, Steve, now they're "synonyms" as well...

I need to lie down...

[Smile]

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted June 21, 2017 06:07 AM

It's seems that this difference is an English language specificity. There is only one word (bobine) in French to translate "spool" and "reel" and I believe it's the same in other languages. In opposite, you have in English one word to express two different things in French : the English word river is tranlated "rivière" but when a river goes directly in the sea or the ocean, it is no longer a "rivière", it's a "fleuve". Must be a French distinction as in Spanish, as I know, there is only one word (rio) as well. [Smile]

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Dominique

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted June 21, 2017 03:02 PM

This is the PERFECT solution. Let's just all use the French instead!

So on eBay we'd say something like: "This feature comes mounted on two 800-foot bobines."

Perfect, I say!!!

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