8mm Forum: 24v 250w Lamp in Elmo GS1200???

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Topic: 24v 250w Lamp in Elmo GS1200???

Adam Deierling
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 717
From: OH
Registered: Nov 2010

posted January 21, 2013 09:59 AM

Is there an upgrade to make this possible? How hard would it be to install?

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted January 21, 2013 10:22 AM

I think it might put a strain on the transformer, I used to use them
in my Fumeo,which is also 24v 200w, and was informed of that
piece of info.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 21, 2013 11:12 AM

Two things to think about:

1/ If you put the 250W lamp straight in you’ll risk over running the transformer and I don’t think they’re available anymore. If your transformer goes kaput, you’ll end up with a very expensive door stop. You can however set up an external power source. This has been done by at least one person on the forum (one of the New Zealand contingent I think?) to good effect on an ST 1200. The principal would be the same for a GS.

2/ If you are using a lamp intended for use in 16mm machines, the filament and reflector will be set up to focus the light on the 16mm gate so you will lose a significant percentage of the available light and might well not gain very much.

It’s worth doing a search for external power sources and 250W lamps on the forum, you’ll probably find some useful posts.

I hope that helps.

Mike [Cool]

Edit: These might help: http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004219#000000

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003920#000001

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003643#000007

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003042#000000

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002087#000000

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 21, 2013 04:44 PM

I have used the 250 watt ELC lamp on one of my GS1200'S. It produces a significantly whiter and brighter light than the 200 watt ESC or EJL, and it is a much more uniform light- a real screen scorcher in fact! So , at least on my particular machine, the transformer was indeed capable of supplying the higher current.
But Mike is absolutely right, the risk here is huge - namely wiping out the transformer and making the projector useless for anything but spare parts (not quite a door stop [Big Grin]

)
I ran my older GS for a couple of hours with the 250 watt ELC and nothing bad happened, but the projector ran significantly hotter. I have stopped doing this a long time ago because of the above noted risk.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Adam Deierling
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 717
From: OH
Registered: Nov 2010

posted June 25, 2013 07:40 PM

So I put one of my spare 250w bulbs in my elmo gs1200 and I noticed that it wasn't as bright as the 200w that recently burnt out. I also did a side by side comparison with my st1200 and noticed that it is slightly brighter than the gs with 250w bulb. Then I compared the gs to my elmo 16cl that uses the 250w bulb and it was way brighter than the gs. I am wondering if the projector just isn't able to use the 250w bulb to its fullest potential?

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Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 26, 2013 12:04 AM

On the advice of Derek(Derann) I put an ELC 250w bulb in one of my GS's with no ill effect and definitely more light.

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Trevor

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 26, 2013 02:26 AM

Bear in mind Trevor that the chaps at Derann were not true Super 8 enthusiasts and quite often duff information was given out. Killing the transformer is a very real risk so I would advise everyone not to do it.

The ESC lamp was designed for the Super 8 gate and assuming you have a genuine ESC you should get a brighter image on screen than anything else. With the 250 watt lamp I have been told the extra wattage causes the projector to drop the voltage being supplied and hence the diminished brightness. It seems some people are not experiencing this but I suspect that depends on the electricity supply where they are which is often very poor in the USA.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 26, 2013 08:32 AM

There has been a lot of debate on this subject. I have used an EIKO brand ELC 24v250w lamp in my GS1200 when I first got it, and it was way brighter than the FUJI ESC 24v200w that I have in there now, and at a third of the cost. I plan on using the ELCs when the two FUJI lamps I bought are done. I was assured by two well known experts on the ELMO GS1200 that there was no risk of danger to the transformer by using it, and not to believe all the info that's posted on internet forums [Wink]

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Joe Taffis

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 26, 2013 08:36 AM

We want names Joe! [Smile]

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 26, 2013 08:57 AM

No secret Rik...I already mentioned their names concerning this topic in a thread from last month "Which is Brighter?", Steve Osborne and Leon Norris....

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Joe Taffis

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 26, 2013 09:18 AM

Yes Leon has told me on many occasions that he has run the ELC in the GS1200 without any problems at all.
The transformer will be required to deliver 10.4 amps with the ELC versus 8.3 amps with the ESC or EJL. Power consumption (heat dissipation) in the transformer windings will vary as the square of the current, so the heat dissipation in the transformer windings will be 1.6 times higher with the ELC lamp. Thats quite a jump, and whether or not it will be damaging depends soleley on the margins of safety designed into that massive transformer.
Since heat (in the windings) is the real concern here when using an ELC lamp, the idea of removing the rearmost speaker and installing a fan blowing right onto the transformer may have some real merit.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 27, 2013 03:06 AM

It seems the Fuji ESC is not a genuine ESC either. The EIKO was a rebadged EJL but was probably a mistake rather than intentionally misleading. But it's a shame if the Fuji isn't putting out light output similar to original ESC lamps too. Fortunately I still have a bit of a stock of genuine lamps. Whether or not they're brighter than Joe's 250 watt though will have to remain a mystery.

Now that I think of it, I do have a GS1200 with a 250 watt lamp in it that is brighter than any other Super 8 projector I have ever seen. Got its own power supply though.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted June 27, 2013 03:36 AM

I rather naughtily have been running the excellent GE 250 watt (black box) lamps for a few years in a GS1200 and rightly so was told off as it does put a strain on the transformer and further down the line switch contacts due to the current. However, still residing in what I call my general use GS is a GE 250 watt lamp and has not yet blown anything up although I’m well aware I am chancing it. I find the 200 watt Fuji lamps very good and have a long life in them. Perhaps we should look more towards a perfect blackout and a top end screen? My late father was always chatting about screens having needed as much light possible during his public information film screenings in wartime using the old pre focus lamps and screen choice was paramount. He used a large beaded screen for maximum light then which although limits the viewing angle did belt out some light for sure by all accounts which he would have needed. I think John has the best Elmo in the universe with the HTI thing but for me I like to keep things original so leave my own Xenon as is which performs superbly in larger halls. Of course the problem with using the Xenon at home is the noise they create which is a pain and sound a bit like force ten from England. The last show I did to a large audience of just under 200 when I switched on just about everyone turned round to see what the noise was, so unusual in this digital projection age and did make me smile. By the way a local chap to me is experimenting with a 275 watt lamp in the quest for more light and I will let you know if it works.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 28, 2013 03:32 AM

Remember the HTI conversion is done to an ordinary GS1200 and not a Xenon model. That would be a bit daft unless the xenon was completely knackered.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted June 28, 2013 05:06 PM

I certainly would not take the chance with a 30 plus year old projector transformer using a 250 watt lamp. Thats why I built an external power supply, and just leave the old GS projector to happily tick over doing its thing "year after year" without "any" extra load.

You can always buy for "peanuts" an old slide projector thats rated for 24volt 250/300watt lamps, still with its low/high setting and wire it in and use that....its easy enough. [Smile]

Graham.

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