8mm Forum: What should I expect to pay for Wizard of Oz?

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Topic: What should I expect to pay for Wizard of Oz?

Stuart Reid
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 720
From: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Feb 2009

posted March 13, 2016 08:44 AM

I used to have a (I think) Red Fox print which was a little grainy but I'd love to add a Derann print of this to my collection, what sort of price should I be looking to pay?

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 13, 2016 08:57 AM

If you can find a Derann one Stuart (not an easy find), I'd expect to pay at least £300 plus for one in superb condition with original leads, tails, spools and boxes.

The screenshots I've seen of this print look absolutely superb and didn't appear over grainy to my eyes, but I've never owned one.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Stuart Reid
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 720
From: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Feb 2009

posted March 13, 2016 09:03 AM

Thanks Andrew!

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Paul Browning
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1006
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011

posted March 13, 2016 10:05 AM

PM SENT STUART.

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Paul Suchy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 199
From: Westchester, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 13, 2016 01:47 PM

Beware of later Derann prints, Stuart. The lab work is not the best and my print has a blueish tint that is OK in the color portion, but gives the BW sections a very odd look. Also, the mag stripe bleeds into the image from time to time. I was probably one of the last to purchase The Wizard of Oz from Derann and I'm sorry I didn't have the chance to get an earlier print.

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Paul Suchy

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Stuart Reid
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 720
From: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Feb 2009

posted March 13, 2016 02:01 PM

Yes, I recall issues with the mag stripe on some of the prints I bought from Derann, stripe coming away as i ran prints, and sometimes errant stripe down the middle of the print! I'm also not a fan of that blueish tint that later Derann prints always had.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 13, 2016 02:14 PM

Never had Stripe encroach the middle of the frame Stuart, but I have seen it many times encroach upon the frame from the balance stripe side in the form of a slightly annoying wavy line.

When witnessed, I try to crop the frame ever so slightly to get around this.

I have learned to live with the bluish tint on many of the later non animated films so long as the colour is vibrant.
It's often a compromise on one thing or another with the later the prints released I've found.

[ March 13, 2016, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 13, 2016 03:10 PM

Probably a daft question but how do you tell the red fox from the Derann print assuming you don't have the original box? Was it marked on the leader?

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Tony

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 13, 2016 04:14 PM

It's more difficult than that anyhow Tony as the Derann prints came from the same Red Fox negatives.

Same with Kempski, so I have no idea on any of my Kempski or Red Fox features whether or not they are originals or Derann later prints, to any degree of certainty.

What I can say for the Red Fox prints, is they were often originally produced on 400ft reel length parts.
Therefore if original, and now on 600ft reels, you'd expect a splice after each 400ft length.

This may not be the case for Kempski prints but is definitely the case for many Red Fox features.

Whether or not Derann released the Red Fox ones on 400ft parts or not, I cannot remember without looking through old catalogues again though.

I would imagine any that Derann released would show a fair amount of negative wear of one kind or another by the time they got them.
If the print is nigh on perfect, I'd be guessing its almost certainly an original.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Stuart Reid
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 720
From: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Feb 2009

posted March 13, 2016 04:41 PM

By the way what happened to Derann's negs? Destroyed?

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted March 13, 2016 04:43 PM

Sadly yes, buried I think.

Best Mark.

PS with patience you should pick up a nice one for £125-150 staurt.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 13, 2016 04:59 PM

Well I have a print of This mounted on 800ft reels. Must fish it out

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Tony

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 13, 2016 05:09 PM

I will take one too at that price Mark! [Wink]

In recent years, I've certainly never seen a decent Derann print of Oz sell for this amount. Wish I had though.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted March 13, 2016 06:30 PM

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=005312

Not so long ago.

Best Mark.

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted March 13, 2016 08:45 PM

Cost: Bring me the broomstick of the wicked witch of the west.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted March 14, 2016 03:55 AM

Watch for iffy prints Stuart. We have had a couple here over the years were the colour has gone sad to say. [Frown]

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014

posted March 14, 2016 04:02 AM

Mark Todd. how right you were. i remember that item for sale. there are sensible prices about for these items.just have to bide your time.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 14, 2016 04:45 AM

Yes,well remembered Mark, in that it was Ian selling at this price.probably up for sale for less than half an hour! [Smile]

)

I still stand by original statement though, for one in the condition described by myself in the first place,and not from Ian, you won't get much change, if any from £300.

I would take note of Lee's comments here, he is spot on!

If Ian came across the King & I Derann print, I'd guess he would advertise it for sale for £200 or less.

There is one up for sale at the moment on e bay uk, all original and untouched and undamaged everything's!

Let's see what this one ends up going for shall we,as an indication of what I am saying here!!😨😊

[ March 14, 2016, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted March 14, 2016 06:01 AM

I think it would do the hobby good for prints to get back to sensible prices, as the silly prices keep any possible newbies absolutely out of the hobby as we know.

Only the old stuck with it in thier veins lot can cope with paying prices like good stuff goes for now.

It even applies to old faded tat that should be going for pennies or free even.

At least B+W has stayed sensible over all.

Ians a fair, nice bloke so keeps it a bit more real.

It would have been far better if people hadn`t taken Derann for granted and the silly money now being paid for 2nd hand prints had gone to them for new ones. Oh well.

Mutter mutter.

Best Mark.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 14, 2016 06:08 AM

I agree with you there on all counts Mark!

However, as I keep saying to my good friend Vidar elsewhere when he mutters similar noises, whether we like or not, these prices are here for a while yet given that everyone left in the hobby are all seeking similar titles all in pristine condition.

It's the price you have to pay sadly for their owners doing the right things by these type of prints.
The only "bargain" ones I find of top titled prints have quite a few bad faults on them.

I keep saying to him nowadays, like it or not, these are the prices we are forced to pay and "You're either IN or OUT" nowadays.

It's just the way it is unfortunately for the very best that remains.

http://www.ebay.es/itm/LARGOMETRAJE-SUP ER-8-MM-4-X180-RLCOLOR-EL-MAGO-DE-OZ-DERANN-/172117993010?hash=item2813082632:g:3AgAAOSwwPhWlFSS

http://www.ebay.es/itm/LARGOMETRAJE-SUPER-8-M M-3-X180-RLCOLOR-COMANDO-DERANN-/172125554537?hash=item28137b8769:g:M~cAAOSwoBtW3bs1

http://www.ebay.es/itm/FEATURE-SOLD-SUPER-8- MM-SPEED-SPAIN-SOUND-DERANN-SCOPE-/172126619709?hash=item28138bc83d:g:LtIAAOSwqrtWpWMp

[ March 14, 2016, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted March 14, 2016 06:24 AM

Agree with you Mark I do, 8mm feature prices off the radar they are with vintage faded films also upwards it seems. I know we have recently seen an influx of new collectors which is great but at what cost?
Owd Yoda.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted March 14, 2016 06:26 AM

Thats bonkers, should be about 200E tops especialy privately.

Got to all fall flat sometime soon surely as its unsustainable as the machines get older and we in to it crowd fall off our/thier perches.

Pass me the Blu Bay please as the 3 kids need some shoes etc and that includes the older one whos on a few pence just over minimum wage and a low hours contract.

Its such a shame for the hobby. My eldest who is older and 22 would love to be more in to the hobby big time but simply can`t, he just does it a bit through/with me.

Shame there isn`t a HD to super 8 direct option so new prints can be affordable and actually probably look better too.

Mutter mutter !!! again.

Best Mark.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted March 14, 2016 06:52 AM

Same here Mark, it is a great shame but like you I believe the dip will be upon us before we know it. The main thing now is to enjoy what we have and can enjoy those wonderful 8mm films however small or large a collection we have. For me daft as it may seem I get the greatest pleasure getting out my original little 40+ year old Eumig instead of my lavish Elmos, banging on a vintage 8mm cartoon from my youth which still is enormous fun and watching it on our screen.

We should not overlook the excellent work Reel Image have done with the new releases and our beloved Classic, a shop we can pop into and thumb through some 8mm films even today. Its nice Classic stock new short 8mm film releases and we enjoy those as and when they become available, plus the visits to the open days and the cups of tea. [Smile]

You are also right about the prices OZ used to go for Mark typically around a hundred pounds possibly due to the colour shift risk as I experienced.

Classics next open day is Sat 22nd May 2016.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 14, 2016 06:53 AM

Sorry Mark, it's just a sign of the times, for now at least anyhow. [Wink]

The best equipment out there btw, is going nowhere anytime soon.
I think I can get at least 20 to 30 years yet from my equipment and the vital spares I now have.

Anything well preserved has to come at a cost. It always has done in any aspect of collecting.
It's the least a discerning owner of these films deserves in my opinion.

As one collector regularly points out to those who feel these prices are unacceptable for the Well Preserved prints,
If you factor in inflation since the 90's and the price these were new, the prices really aren't too bad at all!

I'd say Star Wars and the recent laughable price of an offered Silence Of The Lambs print, being only one or two exceptions.

Even Derek himself, said "now was the time to cash in on our prints" all those years ago.
Blu Ray wasn't even invented when he said it! It hasn't made one jot of a difference to those who love the guage.

If anything, prices paid since, have soared!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted March 14, 2016 07:19 AM

Someone's just mailed me this on fleabay 281892263373
Knock yourself out Andy [Big Grin]

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