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Author
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Topic: WARNING – FILMSHIELD IS A SCAM
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted August 07, 2017 06:31 PM
A man by the name of Edward Smyth is selling items out of his UK apartment under the name E.S. Photographics. He has been selling on ebay with the username e_s_photographics and claims to have been rebottling FilmGuard, however when I spoke to him regarding a cease and desist he did not take anything I asked seriously and was boasting about how he knew the ingredients.
It is unknown if he has truly been rebottling or if he hasn’t just been partially rebottling FilmGuard and mixing in other fillers, or if he has just been filling his mini bottles with his own concoction. Based upon his boasting of knowing the ingredients, of which nobody does other than the patent attorney and the inventor (which is myself), there are real good odds he wasn’t simply rebottling.
Eddie Smyth’s supplier was cut off earlier this year and the way he failed to take anything I said seriously (even his lack of understanding on how a certain type of plastic bottle is needed for the cleaning liquid) there are HIGH ODDS you are not getting real, uncontaminated FilmGuard.
He has since changed the product name to FilmShield and changed up a few words in his ebay description blatantly trying to pass this off as FilmGuard to people who don’t look closely. (Same fonts, etc.) He also is trying to block the US from seeing his listings, as he knows what he is doing is unethical and illegal.
This sort of thing has happened before. One party claimed they were simply rebottling and another literally created their own mixture and sold it AS “FilmGuard”. The first party failed to understand the chemistry (which is protected by patent) and was sending out contaminated bottles which had an unexpected delayed reaction time of around a year before film damage started to occur. The second party wasn’t even smart enough to fake the physical appearance of the solution, and their mixture took about 3-4 weeks to turn the film into one big roll of glue, like a hockey puck!
Again I stress, in BOTH cases film damage occurred!
So here we are with a THIRD imposter, trying to make a quick buck from unsuspecting film collectors. If you have purchased from this guy, BUYER BEWARE! Odds are you do NOT have real and uncontaminated FilmGuard and are likely putting your films at risk.
So everyone is fully aware, FilmGuard has NEVER been sold in any size container other than a 32oz bottle. Period. I realize for some collectors that is a lifetime supply and we are researching producing some 16oz bottles on the batch currently in production, but as of today, any bottle of FilmGuard (or something claiming to be FilmGuard) that is not in a 32oz bottle with our standard packaging with an intact tamper seal on the box is not a legit product.
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Edward John Smyth
Junior
Posts: 1
From: Bramley, South Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Aug 2017
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posted August 09, 2017 04:16 PM
Filmguard Scam?
A certain person by the name of Brad Miller is spreading lies throughout the film collecting community regarding my sales of Filmguard. Brad (the developer of this solution) is accusing me of passing off a possible fake product which is not the case at all.
Shame on you Brad for doing this and shame on any user of the 8mm forum for adding their comments without having a clue what started all this. It only proves how people are quick to judge before they know the facts. What about my say? Well, for those interested, here is my say and I might add, the simple unadulterated truth.
I have been a collector for many years and I have a lot of enthusiasm, especially when it comes to preparing my adverts for selling film related items. I try to go the extra mile and on this occasion, I sincerely wish I hadn’t bothered.
It began in February 2016 when I purchased 2 bottles of Filmguard from Jacro (Cinema Supplies) to resell on ebay. The bottles which were designed for cinema use are a large 32fl oz size (just short of a litre) and realistically way too big for the average 8mm collector. To make matters worse, the weight alone would make shipping costs oversees prohibitive. After only selling 1 full sized bottle, I came up with the idea of dividing the contents into handy sized 200ml bottles. This meant that a customer could buy a smaller amount and not have to pay extremely high postage charges.
I ordered 100 perfectly suitable bottles, printed labels and included literature exactly as was included with the original large purchased bottles.
The bottles began to sell and everyone was happy (or so it seemed).
I received an email from Mr Miller basically saying that I was not allowed to do this because for all he knew, I could be selling another product under the Filmguard name. I not only informed him that I purchased his product legitimately from the UK importers (Jacro) but in order to prove it, I sent him every invoice (as are also included here just so that you can form your own opinion).
My point to Brad and more importantly, to you the reader, is this. Why would anyone spend £2,810.50 during the course of 13 months on Filmguard from such a well-known establishment as Jacro (whom I have dealt with for 30 years during my time in the cinema industry) if HE were wanting to sell an inferior mixture? I mean come on people . . . use the brains that God blessed you with PLEASE!
I put it to Brad that I was actually doing him a favour and if anything he should be praising me for being innovative. I backed this up by adding that anyone would realise that his sales of Filmguard surely must have taken a fall since the advent of digital cinema. He agreed it had but followed with the statement that he considered sales from Filmguard as merely being “small change” compared with his other outlets. He reiterated that Filmguard is not available in any other size than the 32fl oz bottle and that I am not an authorised reseller. I said fine then, make me an authorised reseller of smaller bottles. The answer? You guessed it.
I firmly believe that when a person accuses someone and that someone shows evidence that they have in actual fact not done anything illegal, the accuser gets a bee in his bonnet. The original issue then takes a back seat and it’s now a matter of not backing down, whatever the accused comes up with to the contrary.
And with regards to using an unsuitable container to decant the Filmguard, PLEASE . . . don’t insult peoples’ intelligence! This comment was only issued AFTER I proved I had bought the product legitimately. In other words it was a case of “Oh, well he’s shown evidence he bought it so what else can I say to prove my point?”
The bottles used are High-Density Polyethylene (HDPE) and in case anyone is concerned about their safety, here is a few of it’s other uses.
Plastic surgery (skeletal and facial reconstruction)
Piping for Water
Piping for Sewer
Chemical-resistant piping
Coax cable inner insulator
Food storage containers
Fuel tanks for vehicles
Corrosion protection for steel pipelines
I think we can rest assured that Filmguard will sit in them just fine.
Mr Miller then contacted Jacro and made it clear that they refuse to sell me anymore Filmguard otherwise he would not be supplying them with anymore in the future. As I know the sales team really well, they felt quite put out that they had to take this action. I spoke with one of their senior members and told him not to worry and that I knew their hands were tied. We naturally still remain good friends.
The problem I now had was that I was left with lots of bottles of Filmguard to resell. I certainly wasn’t going to embarrass myself or Jacro by asking if I could get a refund, so I decided to change the name to Filmshield until I had emptied my supplies. I did this for one reason only, to at least prevent any further accusations of being associated with the Filmguard name.
So yes then, I have to admit that I have done one thing wrong and I deserve hanging for my crimes. I put Filmguard into smaller bottles so that people with smaller film collections could buy it. Is that such a terrible thing? You decide! But before you do, let’s look at the massive profit I made.
Purchase price from Jacro 38.52 + VAT = £46.22 (for 32fl oz – 946ml)
946ml divided by 200ml = 4.73 bottles
Price per 200ml (£46.22 divided by 4.73 = £9.77 per bottle)
Sale price of my 200ml bottle to UK = £14.99 + £3.30 Postage (Total £18.29)
Now deduct
Filmguard Cost £9.77
Ebay Fees £1.59
Postage £3.30
Paypal Fees 84p
Card Box For Shipping 40p
Bubble Wrap 10p
200ml Plastic Bottle 46P
(Ebay Store Fees – NOT CONSIDERED)
(Driving To Post Office – NOT CONSIDERED)
(Labels for Bottle and Package – NOT CONSIDERED)
(Printer Toner – NOT CONSIDERED)
(Time – NOT CONSIDERED)
Total Expenses £16.46
Therefore sale price minus expenses (£18.29 - £16.46) = £1.83 Profit per 200ml Bottle
As anyone with a mind capable of making an informed decision can see from the above, the only person benefitting here was indeed Mr. Miller but yet he chose to destroy it. Have I lost out? Do you really think that I will miss £1.83 profit per bottle after having laid out hundreds of pounds for it to sit on the shelf? No, the only persons losing out here are the people who found it convenient to buy a smaller cheaper bottle of Filmguard.
So, before you judge, before you add your little lynch mob style comments on any forum I suggest you get your facts straight. And to the persons who state they will never buy from me again, then do just that because your custom is certainly not wanted.
Here are the invoices for the Filmguard I purchased (apparently I can't upload more than one but the other 8 are available upon request). You know how to contact Jacro if you need to validate ANY SMALL DETAIL of this or in fact my integrity.
Finally, I hold my hands up to the mistake of re-bottling, but don’t ever let me hear anyone accusing me of such things as selling fake items, especially if I am in the same room as you!!!
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted August 09, 2017 06:09 PM
Andrew -
Yes Jack Roe UK is currently the only authorized dealer. If you have received FilmGuard direct from them (which would have come in the official packaging), then it is the real stuff. If it has gone through anyone else, and ESPECIALLY if it isn't in our factory packaging, buyer beware...someone is trying to pull something over on you.
Will -
The amazon store is direct from us, but unfortunately we have not yet come up with a good means to export to the UK, Australia, etc. Amazon does not make things easy (and they charge an insane fee, causing the price to really be jacked up). This is why we have simply been referring people to Jack Roe, as they have always been a solid and quality company.
FilmGuard is still the only film cleaner out there that is not hazardous materials. Yes it can ship by air. The price hike is due to the fact that we used to manufacture the product by the truckload. Pallets and pallets of it would ship out every week back in the days when commercial cinemas were using it regularly. When the industry switched to digital cinema the demand, as would be expected, dropped dramatically. When we then ran out and had to make another batch to continue supplying it, we found that to make it in a radically smaller quantity along with price hikes on the chemicals themselves, the sheer cost of manufacturing it was crazy more than in the past...hence the cost increase.
Jack Roe's previous order was honored at old pricing regardless and apparently they had a goof in their system such that it didn't get noted, but their current order is at the new pricing (and it is literally in transit to them now).
I cannot help the price. It just costs more to manufacture now than in years past when chemicals were cheaper and we were producing in mega-quantities. It should be noted the profit line from FilmGuard represents a mere fraction of a single percent of my company's yearly business. I only continue to make it for all of the archives and film collectors around the world that want it. Our business these days is primarily digital cinema.
We are at a point to where we will be out of stock for a few weeks to a month, but after that there won't be any expected backorders. Jack Roe UK will have stock by next week though.
Edward -
First, you are not welcome here. I am leaving your post above, but will not permit you to participate on this forum ever again. Consider yourself banned permanently for the way you are handling this situation and your blatant disregard for the integrity of a product I worked very hard for many years on and hold a pioneer patent for. Do not try and have friends post on your behalf and do not try and register with a fake name. It will not be tolerated.
To the community -
I gave Eddie every chance possible to fix this problem. He continues to this day his criminal activity. I firmly believe two things.
#1 I believe Eddie did buy various bottles of FilmGuard from Jack Roe.
#2 I believe Eddie saved those receipt and empty bottles/boxes as a some sort of means to show to people as "proof" that what they were getting was the real thing, but in reality I believe he is filling the bottles with some other chemical he thinks it is because that would radically increase his profit margin (which by his own math would make it such that he shouldn't even be wasting his time on re-bottling). After all he went into a big fit telling me how he can do just that! (He may think everyone else will blindly believe that is some sort of absolute proof he is directly dispensing into smaller bottles, but I honestly don't think the masses are that foolish to trust that or the new packaging.)
It is obvious from his blatant attempt to fool film collectors into buying the FilmShield bottles alone that he is not an honest man of character. He refused to cease and desist, and is now going to try and go down the pity/drama road with the various collectors. I warned him the first thing I would do is to out his practices publicly and even gave him a few months...but guess what is STILL online right now for sale on ebay? You guessed it, FilmShield!
Eddie -
As I explained to you I would rather take FilmGuard completely off the market than have yet another scam artist selling a knock-off product and destroy the name.
Also regular HDPE plastic bottles doesn't work. To help explain the point in a more obvious manner, ziploc baggies and wax cups work for holding lots of stuff too, but that doesn't make it suitable for FilmGuard! You don't know what is in FilmGuard, nor do you know how various plastics affect the chemical composition over time. You are simply doing this to try and make a quick buck...period.
quote:
don’t ever let me hear anyone accusing me of such things as selling fake items, especially if I am in the same room as you!!!
Mr. Smyth, please DO let me know if you will ever be in the US. I will happily meet you in the same room so you can take your threat of violence out on me. That childish threat of violence further goes to show what kind of person you are.
The last two posts by Winbert and Andrew sum it up well. You simply cannot do what you are doing. It is not only illegal from a re-packaging without consent standpoint, it is a violation of patent laws as well as trademark laws. I will say it one last time because I know you will read this: Cease and desist immediately.
To the community -
At this point if the FilmShield auctions continue, everyone on this forum will know without a doubt Eddie is not running a professional operation. As of the time of this posting, he is STILL continuing to sell this knock-off.
Mark -
I am having a bit of a hard time believing Eddie did not put you up to your post, but it really doesn't matter because I will answer it the same whether it came totally from you or had influence from Eddie...
In no way will the decision to NOT permit anyone to re-bottle FilmGuard change based upon your post or anyone else's. I understand a smaller bottle is desired and as I stated previously we are working on that for this next batch, so such a thing will likely be available within a few months. However if you want to see Eddie prosper, help get it through his head this will only get much worse for him if he continues to sell this knock-off product.
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