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Author Topic: 16MM projector assessment (curious)
Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

- posted November 14, 2015 02:16 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey everybody ...

I saw a Bell and Howell 16MM filmosound "Specialist" projector at a local pawn shop, and I was wondering if anyone can give me a rundown on the quality level of the projector.

OSI

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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- posted November 14, 2015 02:48 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi
A lot of them are called "Specialist". What is the model number?

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Maurice

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted November 14, 2015 04:07 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi
Beware of the dreaded worm gear problem. Other than that they are a very good machine. There are many variations depending on the model number. Some are purely optical sound whereas some are both optical and magnetic. It would be a good idea to test run it before buying, that way any worm gear problem would be made obvious by the clanking noise of a cracked or broken worm. Normally they are a reasonably quiet and smooth running projector. If it is possible that the seller would let you remove the rear cover it allows you to inspect the worm visually for cracks/damage.

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

- posted November 14, 2015 07:53 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurice is correct that without knowing the model number, comments are impossible. I have a 285 Filmosound Specialist and it is a spectacular projector. The older models did not have the worm gear problem.

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted November 15, 2015 04:27 AM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barry
I wasn't aware that the older models were called 'Specialist'. I thought that was unique to the TQ range?

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007

- posted November 15, 2015 08:16 AM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings Osi
If your planing on buying any 16mm Bell & Howell
Take the back cover off and check the worm gear for any type of cracks Even hairline ones on which will crack more over time
If you don't see any on the 1st look rotate the motor belt by hand that will turn the worm gear a round If the person says you can not take the back off Say sorry and walk out
Even if you run the projector like Terry says
by the clanking noise of a cracked or broken worm
You want to be sure
When i get a B&H in for repair. Thats the 1st thing i do
Right in front of my customer if in my shop
Also i tell them if shipping to take the back cover off and check for the worm It cost $350.00 plus parts See worm gear replacement on my web site
RC

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RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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- posted November 15, 2015 10:34 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As I said earlier, many models carried the name "Specialist", although it doesn't seem to relate to any particular feature. Click below to see a list of Bell & Howell projectors from the web-site of Paul Ivester.

http://www.paulivester.com/films/projector/bh_models.htm

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Maurice

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted November 15, 2015 11:51 AM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Another great piece of research by Maurice. Didn't know there were so many!

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

- posted November 15, 2015 06:36 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Terry. There are. Here is a pic of my 285 CXR Filmosound Specialist. It has the attached speaker that opens from a little door in the rear.
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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted November 16, 2015 02:05 AM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow - Barry! I've seen many of the old 'blimp' B&H's but never one as nice as that. I used to have a 601 many years ago which was quite nice but nowhere near yours. As you say, no worries about worm gears with that. In fact apart from lubrication all you have to worry about is the occasional replacement of motor brushes.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
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- posted November 16, 2015 01:17 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll have to look at the model number! I didn't know that there were so many of that same range!

What in the bloody heck is a "worm gear"? Is that something that is specifically a 16MM projector part, not found on super 8?

I know films ... I don't know the technical jargin, even on my own super 8 projectors! [Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

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From: France
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- posted November 16, 2015 01:37 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's the main drive gear. Archimedes's endless screw type thingie. And Achille's heel of many B&H projectors.
(no, I didn't win the "can you quote ancient Greece twice in the same post?" bet...)

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

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From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
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- posted November 16, 2015 01:46 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi...The worm gear is a large horizontal gear on the B&H projectors that looks like this (you can't miss it) [Smile]

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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- posted November 16, 2015 02:55 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is important to note that this two-piece worm first appeared with the new models in 1962, previous to that, the wooden cased models had a worm which was wholly metal and not prone to any later cracking problems.

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Maurice

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
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- posted November 17, 2015 01:52 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, this is the only other info I could get on the projector (or off the projector) ...

541T and then these serial numbers 0257050

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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- posted November 18, 2015 01:50 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a Bell & Howell 535 which is very similar to the model 541T (see link), the only difference is the colour, mine is black, the 541T is green, mine has a valve amp, the 541T has a transistorized amplifier.

They are manual thread which takes a bit of getting used to around the sound assembly where tension is needed.

Both models have the infamous worm which may become cracked. The easiest way is to take the back off as shown by Janice and look at the worm. If it is cracked it might be better to pass on this projector as professional assistance is required to fit a new worm. It could cost around £150, plus, the cost of a new worm.

http://ian-partridge.com/b&h_535te.html

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Maurice

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
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- posted November 18, 2015 10:20 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
EEK! I'll check that out, thanks Maurice.

Yes, it is a transistorized projector, (it had some info on the back of the projector talking about that).

The important info for me is ...

1. Is this projector kind to film, or is it a scratching fiend?
2. What kind of lamp and how many hours does it play for?

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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- posted November 18, 2015 10:53 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
1) I've never had any problems with Bell & Howell scratching, keep the gate clean, it swings 180 degrees to open.

2) It uses a multi pin tru-flector lamp (i.e. built in reflector). Has a mains voltage 1000watt lamp, or a 750watt can be used.

Not sure of the lamp's life, it is quite considerable. Make sure you let it cool after use by switching off but keeping the motor/fan running until cooler air comes out of the top of the lamp-house.

As the 541T is a "Specialist" model this might include a still function but I can't find any photo if this model to verify my thoughts.

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Maurice

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
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- posted November 19, 2015 11:33 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
By the way, many thanks Janice for that picture of the "worm gear", unfortunately, I wasn't able to talk the employee into letting me take off the back to look at that gear yesterday, but I'll talk to the manager and explain better as to why I want to look inside.

Thanx 4 the extra info, Maurice!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007

- posted November 19, 2015 07:22 PM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings Osi
Like i said in my other post
If the person says you can not take the back off
He or she might be hiding that bad worm
Say sorry and walk out.
RC

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted November 20, 2015 04:19 AM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Richard offers good advice. A check of the worm is essential, otherwise the projector should be considered as spares or repair with a price reflecting that condition. Even if the worm appears good at the moment it is no guarantee that it will not deteriorate at any time.
Unbelievable that the engineers at Bell & Howell could have considered designing a worm comprising of steel covered with plastic/nylon. Didn't they realise that the two materials have different coefficients of expansion? What is worse is that they denied the problem and never changed the design.

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Barry Fritz
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From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

- posted November 20, 2015 10:39 AM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The CWA lamp is readily available for 5 to 10 dollars from various sellers online. Terry, I don't think the problem with the worm gear became known to Bell Howell until many years later. By that time many different models had been produced using that gear. Even now, there are projectors around with that gear that have not cracked.

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted November 20, 2015 12:20 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barry
Yes I myself have a 1698 that is perfect but it has had little use and benefited from good storage conditions. The worry is that who knows when the worm will fail. It is obviously a design fault that will hang over all later B&H's and I dread the day when I switch it on only to find that it has failed. Such a great shame because they are a fantastic machine otherwise.

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

- posted November 20, 2015 01:41 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, it is a shame. It wouldn't be so bad if it was easy to replace, but it is not.

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

- posted November 21, 2015 12:32 PM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Those old B&H wooden-cased machines smell great too! They also heat up a room nice on the cold Winter nights...

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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