8mm Forum: Real Film Is Not Dead

»	8mm Forum » General Yak » Real Film Is Not Dead (Page 1)

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Author

Topic: Real Film Is Not Dead

Jerome Sutter
Film Handler

Posts: 92
From: Bellwood, IL USA
Registered: Dec 2010

posted January 23, 2012 04:31 PM

Here is a very interesting topic:

Real Film Is Not Dead: http://www.dailynews.com/moviesandtv/ci_19796282

| IP: Logged

Thomas Dafnides
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted January 23, 2012 07:54 PM

Excellent article.

| IP: Logged

Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010

posted January 24, 2012 05:38 AM

I would like to be as optimistic as the article implies, but as one of many film workers on the production side in the UK who have been made redundant due to the demise of film, the evidence around me is one of almost total collapse.

| IP: Logged

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted January 24, 2012 08:14 AM

It's a nice article but the facts are, for all intents and purposes, film is on the way out.

| IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 24, 2012 08:56 AM

The really sad thing is that Kodak owns hundreds, if not thousands, of patents on digital photography and printing. This is now their greatest asset, which they plan to sell off.
In this environment it is hard to believe that they will continue producing super 8 film, and may (God forbid) have to cease production of 35mm film.
Sad days for film lovers. [Frown]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

| IP: Logged

Thomas Dafnides
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted January 25, 2012 07:50 PM

The article made a valid and strong case, that in 2012, film remains the only true archival medium. This is why since the 1980's, the major TV networks have archived many of their prime programs (shot on video) onto film.
In light of this, I see film manufacturing for decades into the future.

| IP: Logged

Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010

posted January 26, 2012 04:07 AM

Tom, interesting point of view, but as one who has been involved in the transfer of nitrate to acetate filmstock for a certain country's film archive, I have to point out that this has now been switched to digital because of the prevailing situation. This can make sense partly for reasons of storage space, and because the transfer of digital back to film, if required, is very easy today.When a feature film is made these days it is normaly edited in digital form and film negatives are made from that digital form for cinemas that require prints. The odds are that the last real film you saw at the cinema has actually been transfered back from digital.

| IP: Logged

Thomas Dafnides
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted January 30, 2012 10:03 PM

Allan,
In what digital format/ storage material are they archiving in? And how are these stored? What type of containers?
I remember reading an in depth scientific article that said that any dvd/blu ray disc stored in a plastic album eventually deteriorates from the gases emitted by the plastic container, itself. I find that most people in the video industry are completely, oblivious to this.

[ January 31, 2012, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: Thomas Dafnides ]

| IP: Logged

Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010

posted January 31, 2012 04:25 AM

I'm no longer involved with this or any other project due to being made redundant, with many others, due to the move from film. Whichever form the storage takes, it's a fact of life that whatever medium films are made in today, it will more than likely go into digital at the editing stage. I know that the argument is that digital technology is constantly changing, but that won't stop it happening, and even film deteriorates in time.

| IP: Logged

Gerald Santana
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1060
From: Cottage Grove OR
Registered: Dec 2010

posted February 09, 2012 02:05 PM

BREAKING NEWS FOLKS!

Rather than start a new topic on this subject, let's keep it going here:

Kodak pulls an about-face, kills digital to keep film alive!

Read it and weep Mr. Pixel...

"Less than a month after announcing that it would seek bankruptcy protection in the US, Kodak has announced that it will stop the production of digital cameras and picture frames, as well as pocket-size video cameras."

http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/2145203/kodak-phases-digital-businesses-film-alive

--------------------
http://lostandoutofprintfilms.blogspot.com/

| IP: Logged

Colin Robert Hunt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Milton Keynes Buckinghamshire
Registered: Aug 2005

posted February 09, 2012 02:47 PM

Sorry Allen to hear of your redundancy. I myself have been uneployed for the last 4 years apart from short temporary contracts, not in the film industry I must add. I wish you all my best wishes to your future. I find it's very bleak out there on the job market.

| IP: Logged

Thomas Murin, Jr.
Master Film Handler

Posts: 260
From: Lanoka Harbor, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2009

posted February 09, 2012 03:40 PM

Sorry to burst your bubble, Gerald, but this article clarifies the digital situation:

http://www.rbj.net/article.asp?size=3&aID=190308

--------------------
My crummy Deviant Art account. Read my poetic tribute to the internet comic strip Ozy & Millie and view my crappy attempts at art.

http://cougartiger.deviantart.com/

| IP: Logged

Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010

posted February 09, 2012 04:28 PM

Thanks Colin, hard times, I know. As regards film, I'm lucky that I reached retirement about the same time our film lab stopped production of film prints, in fact I got another year in before it got serious. 35mm has had a good innings, going back to the 1890's, in fact it was the general opinion when I joined the industry in 1959 that film was soon to be on the way out, and some type of video technology would take over eventually, though producing a large size cinema presentation was regarded as sci-fi stuff.
Good luck to you, too, hope things improve for you.

| IP: Logged

Thomas Dafnides
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted March 05, 2012 07:36 PM

According to this article (thanks Claus), the major Hollywood studios still archive shot-on-digital productions and archive them
on 3 strip film for "100 year life".

http://www.theasc.com/blog/2012/02/13/the-digital-dilemma-2-dilemma/

| IP: Logged

David Michael Leugers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Fairfield, OH, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted March 11, 2012 12:17 AM

My two sons were born shortly after the video revolution (early 1980s). I shot all my home movies of them growing up on film. I got lots of laughs from people who thought I was a relic. Today I have a great film library of my kids from the time they were born.
Several family members who shot video back then literally have nothing to show. The tapes have all become unplayable mostly due to fall out so bad it clogs the heads of the machine. Many were recorded over by accident or misidentified and tossed. Film you can literally stuff in a box and store it for decades, pull it out and view it. Digital still cameras same problem. Who is archiving the thousands of mindless pics now being taken daily on their Iphones? We are losing it. So is Hollywood but maybe that is a good thing...

--------------------
Live Free or Die

| IP: Logged

Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted March 11, 2012 01:00 AM

Lately on the radio some crowd are advertising a transfer service for your old home movies to dvd saying "before its to late". Now I thought they were talking "film", the usual stuff you hear, but no. Its those old home movies they refer to that your parents took "video tape" that is. [Roll Eyes]

I can still remember something similar being said years ago about you must transfer home movies "film wise" to video tape "or else", now its video to dvd.

And so it goes on, with all that rubbish about transfer "or else", is that your home movies shot on "film" has held up really well over the years and still looks great. All you need is a good projector and those films will still last well after the latest electronic marvel has turned to dust. [Smile]

My biggest mistake back in the early 90s was the move to home movies taken on video tape. The fact is, had I continued with film and spent the money on that instead of a video camera it would have been a lot better in the long run.

I still take video but also make a point of shooting film as well thats if I want it to last.

Graham.

| IP: Logged

Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010

posted March 11, 2012 04:56 AM

Acting as devil's advocate, it's true that many filmakers prefer to scource from film because it's what they know, but film companies have never been shy of clearing space in their archives and film takes a lot of it up. Three strip preserves colour perfectly,as it originates from b/w panchro stock, but that's three rolls of neg for each reel stored and a lot of that went west in the past. Most of those wonderful old classics (that didn't go missing) could only be revived with digital help, because each strip will often shrink at different rates. As far as other neg types go, the colour does often fade and can only be bought back digitally.
I still have two 8mm cameras, but where will I get the film processed? There are still labs hanging on, but most people will go for the easy option of digital, which will inevitably put them out of business.

[ March 11, 2012, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: Allan Broadfield ]

| IP: Logged

Jerome Sutter
Film Handler

Posts: 92
From: Bellwood, IL USA
Registered: Dec 2010

posted March 11, 2012 10:56 AM

Excellent post David, also the Library of Congress only accepts film to archive their motion pictures. They do not accept digital.

| IP: Logged

David Michael Leugers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Fairfield, OH, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted March 11, 2012 01:06 PM

In the past year I was honored to transfer some color R-8mm home movies for a great guy in his 70's. The movies were of him as a baby (before WWII) on up until he was about teenage. The films were on original reels and cans from the 40's and the earliest films were over 70 years old. I attached new leader (you can still buy it from Kodak) cleaned and lubed the film with Filmrenew, got great transfers of all the footage without problem. He was going to show his kids and grand kids this precious footage, most had never seen it. Priceless... I still shoot anything important to me on film including stills.

--------------------
Live Free or Die

| IP: Logged

Stuart Fyvie
Film Handler

Posts: 90
From: Amersham
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 11, 2012 03:20 PM

The ONLY long term archive format that exists as present are B&W separation masters on 35mm film. Guaranteed 100 years stored in dry conditions.

Stuart

| IP: Logged

Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 452
From: Bromley, Kent
Registered: Nov 2010

posted March 13, 2012 04:47 PM

Some of these three strips masters have already deteriorated, unfortunately, in a good deal less time than 100 years.
Furthermore, Martin Scorcese remarked in a documentary on film preservation that modern colour negs, which had been heralded as stable, were already experiencing drop off in their colour layers. Ideal storage conditions may well help save these treasures for some time, but the biggest enemy is human nature, when monetary considerations are taken into account, they may consider the space more valuable than the contents.

[ March 14, 2012, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Allan Broadfield ]

| IP: Logged

Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted June 04, 2012 02:52 PM

Kodak used to boast that their movie film would still have good
colour in 100 years time.We are at present celebrating our
Queen in the UK and I've just watched Prince Charles dig out
the Family home movies and show them, in a television doc.even he remarked on the excellent colour which it was,of their home
movies,some filmed by Her Majesty herself,as she was a keen
cinematographer, and this was before the Coronation.When it comes to reversal film I think Kodak have kept their word.

| IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 04, 2012 04:38 PM

I agree Hugh. My 8mm Kodachrome films from 60 years ago look like they just came back from processing. The scary thing is, nobody really knows how long DVD's and Blu Rays will really last.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

| IP: Logged

Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted June 04, 2012 05:21 PM

That's a very good point Paul,I read somewhere that if you write on the disc with a marker pen,it can affect the layer underneath
and so spoil the recording.The bottom line is that film is tried
and tested plus it's universal.Lets face it,putting a video of your
holiday or whatever into the dvd is a commonplace occurence,
putting your film through a projector to view, is an occasion all
present enjoy as there are no distractions and the screen is the
focus of attention,

| IP: Logged

Bryan Chernick
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Bothell, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2010

posted June 04, 2012 05:48 PM

I just came across some 8mm home movies from 1937 that are still holding their color like they were filmed yesterday. I have a lot of Kodachrome from the 1940's and 1950's that are the same way. I hope the new film I'm using holds it's color that well.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2