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Topic: My dvd 's rubbish

Keith Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: England
Registered: Jun 2015

posted December 01, 2015 04:11 PM

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I tried to watch some dvd's I recorded years ago with my Phillips dvd recorder and now they won't play not even on the machine that recorded them is this a common thing ? the recorder still works fine records dvds and plays them back and the newly recorded dvds play on any machine I have ,the old dvd's all look ok and have been stored in a dark cool cuboard .

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 01, 2015 04:22 PM

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Copied discs dont last as long as their professionallly made counterparts Keith.
They use different methods to create the image on the disc.

[ December 02, 2015, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted December 01, 2015 05:06 PM

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Try ripping the old DVD images to your computer and then re-burning the image to a new disk to see if that helps.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011

posted December 01, 2015 05:29 PM

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Hi Keith, Andrew is quite right about the difference. The home recorded discs can be affected by light in the same way as coloured
photographs did. I have always been advised to keep the recorded discs in a case recorded side down so that it is not constantly exposed to light. Also handle only by the edges,avoid scratching the surface and store in a fairly even temperature. I have also found that some makes are much better than others for stability and long life. Do you use a cleaning discs in your recorder from time to time ? Giving the disc a clean with disc cleaning pads also helps. Dis you "finalise" the discs when you recorded them?
Please forgive me if I am "teaching Grandma to suck eggs"! P.S. Just an extra thought. The early Phillips recorders used DVD+R discs, and other makes used DVD-R. This often caused playback problems through incompatibility. Ken Finch.

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted December 01, 2015 06:31 PM

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Chalk another one up for film! I have 60 year old home-made films that still play perfectly!

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Simon Balderston
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 164
From: North Lincolnshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2015

posted December 01, 2015 06:51 PM

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no disrespect to dvd but long live film and it does

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kinema king

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William Olson
Master Film Handler

Posts: 287
From: Poughkeepsie, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2010

posted December 01, 2015 07:03 PM

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Ah, the mysteries of DVD's. Sometimes there's just no telling why a DVD won't play. If, as you say, the discs won't play on the machine that recorded them, then I'm stumped. Are you sure there is something recorded on the discs? Sorry for the stupid question. Since you say that this machine plays and records other discs, the discs in question should play on their native machine even if the discs haven't been finalized. You can try recovering them using your computer and an available program (which may cost you). Of course, there's no guarantee that this will work. Funny, my 40+ year old Super 8 film still plays beautifully.

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted December 01, 2015 07:30 PM

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SPECTRE the latest James Bond film was shot on Panavision then transferred to digital for distribution. That should tell you something about film vs DVD.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 02, 2015 04:55 PM

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Professional discs are imprinted by creating light and dark shaded data areas from root and crest physical impressions. Home burning methods simply mimic this process by light and dark laser burned areas of data on the discs that cannot, or do not, even attempt a permanent Job.

Even a professionally made disc doesn't last a lifetime so anything you wish to keep for good, transfer to modern day high capacity external hard drives that can easily be upgraded, as and when, and are cheap enough nowadays.

The data can be easily transferred onto a large USB data stick to view via a modern day home cinema amp via a home cinema digital projector whenever you like.

This method proves far more reliable than any non professional created DVD discs.

[ December 03, 2015, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted December 03, 2015 02:47 AM

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Yes, I've heard it said that professionally anything that is held in digital form has to be on at least 3 digital media in three separate locations to be considered safe. Also they should be transferred to new storage devices every 7-10 years to prevent degradation.

The cost of long term storage is greater than that for film!!!

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 03, 2015 05:27 AM

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Not sure about that one Brian, especially in this day and age, but you're entirely correct about providing a failsafe environment for Digital media.

It is so cheap now to store data, for the important things in life, why not back them up at least 3 times over?

[ December 03, 2015, 06:31 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 03, 2015 05:39 AM

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Features for showing in cinemas arrive on a hard drive. Is this a safe storage media?

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Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 03, 2015 05:52 AM

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I'd say so Maurice for the time they use them for. Just about anything would be ok digitally for a matter of weeks I'd say.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted December 03, 2015 10:46 AM

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I thought professionally made discs were supposed to last a lifetime if taken care of (e.g. you don't scratch them.)

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 03, 2015 11:40 AM

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I'm afraid not in many many cases Joseph. People have reported already CD's and DVDs that already will not play despite the technology not being that old relatively.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dave Groves
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 508
From: Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
Registered: Feb 2015

posted December 03, 2015 04:41 PM

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I knew that some Laser discs suffered from rot due to a manufacturing defect (I've got an odd one or two) but I must admit I'd never heard anthing said about dvd's failing. Now, I can understand why hollywood originates it's productions on film and distributes them on hard drives. It seems to me that if digital failure was the only problem, then that alone would be enough to deal with, but add the onward march of formats and it starts to become a minefield.

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Dave

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 03, 2015 07:35 PM

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I have had several DVD'S from Warner Bros.and Criterion that have suddenly become unplayable after about 5 years, and none of them have a mark on them. All have that brownish 'coffee stain' appearance caused by oxidation of the aluminum reflective layer of the disc. It seems that disc failure can literally happen almost overnight.

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011

posted December 05, 2015 07:00 AM

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I have always advised people who have their cine films transferred to DVD not to dispose of them, with advice regarding storage for both media. The problem with the constantly "Upgrading" of digital media is the same as it was with cine film i.e. incompatibility of hardware. When the format changes, so does the hardware. The same applies to computers. Whenever a new operating system is launched, programmes purchased for the preceding OS, no longer work and have to be replaced. Another problem with digital that no one else has mentioned is the constant changes of connection sockets and leads, sometimes making perfectly usable equipment obsolete. Another symptom of the "throw away " society we now live in. Ken Finch. [Frown]

[Frown]

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted December 07, 2015 12:55 PM

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You so right Ken. Over years how many times have I heard customers say after transfer they would now bin the original films after transfer.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 07, 2015 02:03 PM

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We could always provide them with a dustbin Lee. I'm always up for free film! [Wink]

[Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted December 08, 2015 12:57 PM

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" I have had several DVD'S from Warner Bros.and Criterion that have suddenly become unplayable after about 5 years, and none of them have a mark on them. All have that brownish 'coffee stain' appearance caused by oxidation of the aluminum reflective layer of the disc. It seems that disc failure can literally happen almost overnight. "

I've run into that too, Paul. I wonder if that is some kind of "expiration" that's planned into the discs in order to insure that you have to buy the next up to date version of the film?

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted December 08, 2015 01:36 PM

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It's worthwhile and permissible to backup commercial DVD's as a second copy.

There are companies that manufacture blank recordable DVD media,
that is unreliable.

Verbatim makes a good disc, and gold plated discs are good for archival long term storage.

Gold Media is reliable for medical purposes.

Verbatim web page

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 128
From: West Milford, NJ
Registered: Jun 2008

posted December 08, 2015 02:01 PM

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Commercially pressed CD's and DVD's should out live you. Laser Rot does not effect them as they are manufactured differently than LaserDiscs.

I have CD's purchased in 1983 that still play fine. In fact, out over 600 CD's, only 2 have ever degraded over time, both due to a known manufacturing defect.

As too CDR's, and DVDR (+ and -), each manufacturer of the blanks uses their own formula, and some are more reliable than others. Blanks for business computer backup are generally labeled for how long the manufacturer believes the disc will hold it's data without degradation. Consumer blanks not so much.

Exposure to sunlight will definitely shorten the life of any CDR/DVDR.

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