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Topic: What is the print that your REALLY looking for?
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Barry Attwood
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1411
From: Enfield, U.K.
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted June 22, 2007 03:11 AM
Jean-Marc,
That's fine in theory, but in reality it's pretty hard, as most Forum members must remember the clamour to get the "Wallace & Grommit" feature "Curse of the Were-Rabbit" out a couple of years ago, I still think it would sell, but without source material, you're scuppered again. I think off the top of my head I could come up with at least 20 titles still to come onto the 8mm market, that A collectors would like & B that would sell extremely well, but what is the point of putting peoples hopes up, because unless the print/negative is available to work from, what's the point. A F/L release is one of the hardest things to get right at any time, but in todays market it's near on impossible, unless someone comes up and says for definate they have this title on film and was willing for it to be used, then even I'm scratching my head, as even Derann haven't come up with a F/L print for 2 years now.
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Barry Attwood
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1411
From: Enfield, U.K.
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted June 22, 2007 06:16 AM
Jean-Marc,
The hardest part is No.1, there is just nothing about at the moment (especially what collectors want to buy F/L), I think we were all spoiled with "M&C" a couple of years ago, and the response to that was remarkable, but as the saying goes, that was then, this is now! I think it would be too damaging to raise collectors hopes about a certain release, wait months, and nothing happens (as I've heard reports about other dealers), at least if a company like Derann say that something will come out it will (unless the labs spoil the party that is). I just don't know how far you can go with making lists, it's fun, but we have to be realistic here, if it's a film of 10 years or over the chance of finding good pre-print is extremely rare, and even the newer titles are extremely hard to find, and we all know that the 8mm collectors have a fondness for the older titles (even "Jaws" is 34 years old, what a print that would be F/L Scope on 8mm). I don't have the answer, I wish I did, the trouble is that to the film studios anything to do with home film collecting 8mm or 16mm they think it's a dead beast, and there is just no money in it these days for them, even the biggest deals like Derann's Disney deal must have been extremely small change to company like Disney, I often wondered why they did deal with any 8mm company after the 70's heydays, but that was the charm of Derek Simmonds more than anything, as he was a man possessed with the thought of seeing all those lovely films on his home screen, sadly since his passing there isn't really anyone who has the same commitment and love of the hobby to push for things, and there is always that ugly sentence "Will it make money!". If anyone has the answers, I'd be more than happy to see your thoughts.
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted June 22, 2007 11:00 AM
Barry Barry ....
Don't shattah our poo ole dreams here now! Dreams of technicolor wish-lists keep some of us ole boys goin!
That and living completely in a state of denial!
One of the other nice things (among other reasonings) about optical sound prints on Super 8, is that there is a slim chance that I will actually find the film I'm looking for on optical sound super 8, that is, as long as it was made in between 1968 to 1990, (approximately, as I know "Hunt For Red October" was a super 8 optical sound release, and that was 1990.)
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted June 23, 2007 06:39 PM
Honestly kevin, your right. Though I love over Super 8 optical films, this is due mostly to availability of titles. When it comes to sound, quite honestly, mag sound beats the socks off of optical.
Though Eumig put out some very good optical sound super 8 machines, I personally think that they (the projector manufacturers) didn't really get the optical sound perfected for consumer use. When well produced, a optical mono soundtrack was very acceptable mono, but there are some rather low level optical sound super 8 prints out there, mostly the U.K. produced prints, (as explained in that lengthy optical post most recently).
So there is my very rare negative rant on my own favorite super 8 subject, a very rare thing indeed.
But the variety of optical sound super 8 features out there are ever expanding. this is optical sound super 8's big selling point. My personal list is now over 150 titles, and those are the known titles.
The other big selling point is the incredible pin sharp focus of almost all optical sound super 8's. i'm still astounded when I watch most prints!
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted June 24, 2007 05:49 PM
Micheal,
It is possible that it was printed on SP, but perhaps LPP as well. Being that the optical sound prints were basically printed no doubt on the cheapest stocks available, (as they only expected the prints to be used for a short time), but once they ran out of other film stocks, they no doubt ran to LPP.
After all, optical sound prints were still manufactured up until and thru 1990.
SP itself can age rather well, for that matter, I have a number of Universal 8 prints from way back when that are absolutely pristine and due to proper cold storage, will no doubt last many a year. Certainly long enough for me!
Though it does age, the fade isn't as bad as Eastman and the colour ages to a brownish hue, still leaving much of the colour.
damn, if only my optical print of "Gorky Park" was on Kodak SP instead of Eastman!! (grrrrr!)
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted June 24, 2007 10:27 PM
Kev,
If this is any help,
I have only seem the Eumig
Magnetic / Optical machines
listed in the Blackhawk Films Catalog.
Even back then (the '70's,) I did not understand
the concept of Optical 8mm.
Osi,
To each their own, I am not fond
of SP prints that fade to brown.
the areas that are affected first
are all of the neutral density areas.
Black and White.
All of the Black will turn Orange.
This may not bother some collectors
but I find that detail can be lost
in areas that it is most needed,
especially when black defines an area,
and also where white is needed to contrast
against the black.
I always loved the 200 foot versions
of Mary Poppins the Super Nanny, and
I have both the sound and silent versions
because there is alternate footage in each
version.
Anyway...., I viewed each reel one year apart,
and the change was dramatic. All of the
detail was lost in these SP prints.
The images are now very muddy.
Hopefully if Derann finds the opportunity to strike
gold with a new feature release, it will be one
that will fancy many collectors.
I spoke with a fellow collector that
knows of a lab that prints only dry,
and sends out to a wet lab for the final
product in 16mm.
He told me that all 16mm color,and
black and white reversal stock
has been discontinued by Kodak.
Plus his lab is in search of another wet lab,
because the one that he used for 30 plus years
has recently closed its doors.
Who would have believed that 16mm printing
is not as popular as it once had been.
Thankfully there are the facilities in
Europe that are availing this
support to collectors.
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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted June 25, 2007 10:02 AM
Barry,
you are ABSOLUTELY correct about the awkwardness of the optical lamp for this projector! (Mark S O&M) I haven't been able to locate those actual bulbs anywhere. I have instead started using the same size bulbs but different wattage. They work, but the bulb isn't as bright, therefore, lower audio output on my optical sound ... GRRRRR!!
Now, if I can just figure out why the "claw" won't shutter me films thru, I'll be a lot better off.
Concerning the post, I'm hoping for good luck with my optical collecting soon, (concerning rare titles), as I'm going to put an ad in "Reel Image" and see what happens. I just got a copy of "For Your Eyes Only" in optical sound, and I didn't know about that one before as well, so every month or so, I have the chance to own yet another rare title on Super 8.
By the way, I have run into at four different makers of Super 8mm optical sound projectors :
Copal CP 502
Emumig Mark S O&M
ELMO 1200 (which model?)
Yashica sound P810
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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