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Author Topic: New Super 8 camera from Kodak
Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted January 06, 2016 10:58 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Especially those that can lock onto digital sound from a pc feed!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Jerome Sutter
Film Handler

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From: Bellwood, IL USA
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted January 06, 2016 11:53 AM      Profile for Jerome Sutter   Email Jerome Sutter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
According to Kodak press release: "Kodak, which will process it, scan it, and deliver it back to you as a digital copy and as an 8mm film that you can use in projectors." Here is my question: Right now Kodak only makes negative movie film. If that film where sent in to be process, well they make a positive print as well for the return? For the cost of $50 to $75, I can understand the rise in the price for the processing and printing a new Super 8 positive print.

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

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From: Croydon, London, UK
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 - posted January 06, 2016 07:47 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think it's great news but clearly the issue regarding whether a reversal film will be available needs clarification. It wouldn't be ideal for everyone to have to shoot on negative stock if they don't want to.

Do Logmar still sell their camera? I believe the first 20 all sold. Although their enterprise was admirable, I don't suppose anyone on this Forum would consider $5,000 (without lens) affordable, so I'm sure the Kodak camera would be far more significant in terms of giving Super 8 a shot in the arm. I'd consider buying one even though I rarely shoot Super 8.

I think we may now be seeing increasing evidence of film starting a vinyl-like revival. If so, considerable credit will be due to the high-profile advocates such as Quintin Tarantino and Christopher Nolan, who appear to be having some influence on other filmmakers.

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Adrian Winchester

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Doug Arnott
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From: Detroit, MI, USA
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 - posted January 07, 2016 05:46 AM      Profile for Doug Arnott   Author's Homepage   Email Doug Arnott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey its a BRAND NEW camera, with crystal sync and a C mount lens mount. Im getting one and screwing some of my old lenses on it !! Everything Ive read says the film cartridges are the same size as the old ones.But it has a "Super 8 extended Max 8 gate on it. So might lose some frame projecting it on my old projector. I just hope they start producing some color reversal film for it (crossing my fingers) but either way anything to help keep this format alive and viable is nothing but a good thing !!! Yeah the processing is too expensive but if your going to have it scanned anyway, why not. It could be a good option.
And the camera could definetely help with sound recording being crystal synced. Checked out how much the film group charges to add that for ya lately ?
I just hope none of this hurts ferriana's buisness plans. Im still mad at kodak for killing off kodachrome LoL .Ferrania will rule in my opinion if they ever get some film out to market !!

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Lee Mannering
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From: The Projection Box
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 - posted January 07, 2016 06:11 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You are probably right Steve but its sure fascinating to see Kodak have a go and break some new ground.

All a bit reminiscent of the Bolex D16 Cinema Camera perhaps with 2K res coming in around £2000 upwards. Excellent news and good to keep the Bolex branding about. The raw footage viewed I found dark and needing much tweaking which if you do media professionally as I do slows the workflow no end. Hats off to them though.

Hobby wise I would find it hard to leave my super 8 cine camera behind, still enjoying filming with some nice film stocks on offer. Perhaps we should all be mailing Kodak encouraging them to offer reversal stock?

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Ernie Zahn
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Greenwich, CT, USA
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted January 07, 2016 02:12 PM      Profile for Ernie Zahn   Author's Homepage   Email Ernie Zahn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If there's a enough interest and the volume increases, I hope that the prices of film will go down too. I remember a nice point betwen 2005-2010 I used to buy K40 (till it ended), 64T, and 100D for $10 a pop from Kodak with my student discount.

BH Photo sells Vision stocks for $35! Ouch.

Also, I don't know if this was cleared up yet but the CEO of Kodak confirmed at CES that it's the same cartridges they've been making. That part's not gonna change.

Also also, I just wanna say this new Kodak camera seems like one of those fun "it'll never happen" things that we post about when we talk about our new dream camera or projector haha.

Lastly, I just bought a beautiful 18-75mm // 1.2 lens. I'd love to try out on this new Kodak camera. But what I'd really love is if Canon would make a new S8 camera. [Smile]

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Check out the trailer for my feature length Spaghetti-style Western:

Six and Bisti

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted January 07, 2016 02:55 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Something is not clear : this Kodak camera would have a larger gate that the standard one we know so that if you shoot with that camera and project with a normal projector you loose a part of the picture. So I think Steve is right when he says it is not for "people like us" (end of quote :-)

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Dominique

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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 - posted January 07, 2016 03:22 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What I am really saying is this isn't meant for us because we would be more likely to buy a series of 8 $50 used cameras than the one $400 brand new camera. We aren't "new" oriented. To us "new" is something 40 years old that we got yesterday! The closest we usually come to the real "new" is "mint condition".

-On the other hand a professional would be absolutely crazy to show up at a shoot with a camera older than he (or she) is. They'd be one cracked gear away from everybody else there wondering what's wrong with them and swearing never to work with them again!

From that viewpoint this is the answer to a classic Super-8 objection:

"Why would I choose a medium that hasn't had new gear manufactured since the 80s? I can't stake my living depending on equipment I can't trust."

It's also not meant for us because if WE bought it, Kodak might net 30 cartridges a year per camera. The intent is a film renaissance and miles of film in all gauges. (That's not us.)

(Doesn't mean I would never buy one, though! -priorities!, always priorities!)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Colin Auty
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From: Morecambe Lancashire England
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 - posted January 07, 2016 03:22 PM      Profile for Colin Auty   Email Colin Auty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
heres more info and pictures of this new super 8mm camera for us all to drool over, enjoy :-

www.petapixel.com/2016/01/06/kodak-is-bringing-back-the-super-8-as-a-film-camera-with-digital-features/]www.petapixel.com/2016/01/06/kodak-is-bringing-back-the-super-8-as-a-film-ca mera-with-digital-features/[/URL]

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Derbyshire, England
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 - posted January 07, 2016 04:01 PM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If they are bringing out a new camera and it does say you will also get a super 8 film to show on a projector, does that mean maybe a new projector on the horizon.
Getting totally carried away I could only imagine what Sony could do with a super 8 projector :-)

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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 - posted January 07, 2016 04:09 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm looking at that electronic viewfinder and thinking if you shoot for projection I bet you can configure the viewfinder to frame an academy format (...among other possibilities). It's just a matter of using our old friends letterbox and pillarbox real time.

-yes, you'll shoot the full camera aperture on film, but the projector's gate will take you back to what you saw in the finder.

What would be ambitious is if they used LCD technology to make an electronically variable aperture!

-just saying!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Paul Suchy
Expert Film Handler

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From: Westchester, IL, USA
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 - posted January 07, 2016 04:23 PM      Profile for Paul Suchy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Suchy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's fun to hear the details of the prototype trickle in; it's good to hear that it will shoot at several speeds including 24fps (for those of us with 2 bladed shutters). I wonder how "digital" it will be in terms of shooting different aspect ratios-imagine your next Christmas home movies in scope!

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Paul Suchy

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted January 07, 2016 04:35 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A scope lens holder for this camera is a good idea, tough the weight may be discouraging for some people.

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Dominique

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
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 - posted January 07, 2016 06:48 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anyone know what is happening Farrania wise at the moment. I heard they had issues at the propossed factory site.

Best Mark.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted January 08, 2016 09:06 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, they encountered two not film related technical problems. They said they are shortening the delay but don't want to give any date anymore as you never know what can happen. The good side is that they didn't have to use the money raised for the film to solve their troubles. I can only imagine we should have fresh news soon.
Just got from a friend a link to an article in french about the new camera http://fr.actuphoto.com/34408-kodak-relance-la-super-8.html
This article has two technicals mistakes (the word "lens" in not well translated and they speak about 60 mt (200 ft) cartriges instead of the 15 mt (50 ft ones) like 40 years ago (so no doubt it's a mistake and not a revival of the large sound reels only used on some cameras). It seems that some people don't really know what they are talking about so it's better to wait for more precise and trustable détails.

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Dominique

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Julian Baquero
Expert Film Handler

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From: Bogota, Colombia
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 - posted January 08, 2016 10:38 AM      Profile for Julian Baquero   Author's Homepage   Email Julian Baquero   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is excellent news for all of us in the film hobby and yet another demonstration that not all new technologies are better than old ones, remember vinyl and vacuum tubes, polaroid? As far as I know Ferrania will keep producing reversal E6 film and developing it. Now that Kodak gives the step maybe Agfa, Ferrania or Fuji might come with their own cameras and services (digitizing included). 50 to 70 USD per film is pretty steep price for max 3min of film, I can just hope the price will be lower and you can opt for developing or developing + digital capture.

If new cameras are now available it is pretty sure there will also be new projectors.

Sound sync is still an issue, how will this work with this Kodak cameras?

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Terry Sills
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From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
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 - posted January 08, 2016 12:32 PM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes great that a new camera is coming to the market (if it ever comes to fruition) but really! Couldn't they come up with a better cosmetic design than that? No better than their original camera. A house brick with a handle and a lens. Pity they didn't give it to Bolex to come up with a design. I cannot see that many people will be tempted to buy such a retro poor looking camera. Certainly not 'newbies'.

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Graham Ritchie
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From: New Zealand
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 - posted January 08, 2016 12:50 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
True Julian

I guess for "film projection" you will only have a roll of non- striped silent film. [Frown]

It would be nice to have sound recorded direct onto the film as well "stripe", but I guess this product is not really about film projection, but more for the folk that like to combine the look of film with sound, to be shown on either a TV or video projector.

What I was trying to figure out is, what happens to the sound if you have to edit the Super8 film itself...how do you do it?

Another thing the old Super8 sound cameras had a "boom mike" for good reasons, with this camera its internal, will it pick up the internal sound of cartridge running?.

In saying that good on Kodak for producing a product with a film content it will be interesting to see how it works out.

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted January 08, 2016 01:25 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham, I'm surprised there is no mention at all of reversal film. There is no option, neither of the possibility of having your film process without digitalization. I'm doubting that the film will really run in the projector and will not be a negative film, although what is said. I hope I'm wrong.

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted January 08, 2016 01:58 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Graham, if you edit the film either traditionally or digitally, then you edit the live soundtrack also.

This would of course be easier to do in tandem digitally even if the film is being used in a projector as you have a digital photographic replica to mimic every frame with.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted January 08, 2016 03:17 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew, if you edit a film (I mean a real one), it is much easier if the soundtrack is on it.

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted January 08, 2016 04:25 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Dominique, ordinarily I'd agree with you, but if you have a digital replica and only that replica contains the sound, then I'd digitally edit both simultaneously, then cut the actual film to suit the digital edited version to a frame.

That way the finished digital soundtrack could always be sync pulsed with the projected "real" film and the sound would match the image perfectly..frame for frame.

We are assuming here there will be no magnetic stripe just live sound on a SD card and a silent "real" film with a digital copy of it that includes the live recorded sound in sync with the images.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted January 08, 2016 04:49 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was considering the case of using only film, no digital at all. As far as I'm concerned I see no interest to shoot in super 8 to have a final result on a computer or a dvd or blu ray (then shoot in digital from the beginning...). So, I'm afraid Kodak is no longer regarding super 8 as most of us (I hope) still do : cine camera and cine projector.

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Dominique

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Graham Ritchie
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From: New Zealand
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 - posted January 08, 2016 09:28 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew I cant imagine many will no go to the trouble of trying to the sync the separate sound track to that roll of film on a film projector.... [Smile]

At present it seems its only silent negative film. If they can supply a "color pre-striped reversal film" that would be great, but at the moment it seems the system is more suited for a film to digital transfer. I understand the camera can give you a wider picture, which again is more suited to a 16:9 image possibly close to a 1.85:1 ratio for TV or for Video projection after the transfer.

I would really like to be wrong, but so far I cant see any of this going through a film projector.

If Kodak can bring back the stunning colors of Kodachrome [Cool] ...now that would be something [Smile]

Anyway I wish them luck with this new camera, and hope this will kick start more film use that would benefit all of us [Wink]

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Robert Lewis
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From: United Kingdom
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 - posted January 09, 2016 04:51 AM      Profile for Robert Lewis   Email Robert Lewis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I do think that the annoucement by Kodak is great, but as yet it is clear that there is much more information to come.

Various issues have alrady been raised by a number ot contributors and I suspect these shake down to two principal topics.

The first is cost and second, it seems to me, are technical points based around the proposal.

I have filmed in both double 8 and super 8 in the past, but more recently I have filmed in 16mm, and that, in a way, helps me to comment on the issues which have been raised.

Assuming for one moment that the the film stock intended to be used is limited to negative film, one can perhaps see why the costs so far quoted appear to be high. Negative film will be shot. That will have to be processed and then a print will have to be produced and processed for projection. This mirrors the present arrangement in relation to shooting 16mm film for projection. So one has two 50ft lengths of film (a negative and a positive) with the associated costs of double processing. As to a sound and digital image version, there is no mention so far (as far as I am aware) of whether Kodak will supply the necessary card with the film at the time of purchase. If two types of film stock (negative and positive) and the processing of the both types is included in the purchase price along with a card, the cost so far being mentioned is not, in my view, excessive.

Of course, this would change if Kodak were to be contemplating the reintroduction of a reversal stock. Only the cost of one film stock and one processing cost would be involved along with the audio visual card. There would be a spin-off benefit if this were to happen, because there would be no reason why Kodak should not then be able to supply the same reversal stock in 16mm format - something which 16mm users would, I am sure, very much welcome. That would increase their sales of the stock and, perhaps, make it more viable.

It is impossible, at this stage to know how Kodak will proceed in relation to these points, but I do note that at this time Kodak have mentioned only supplying one projection film to customers along with an audio visual version. If it is intended to use negative film and produce a projection print for customers, what is to happen to the processed negative? Will they be sending both the negative and positive versions to customers? So, does the fact that Kodak have not, so far, at least, addressed it, support the speculation that it is intended to reintroduce a reversal stock?

I do hope so.

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