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Author Topic: Review Wolverine Reels2Digital MovieMaker 8mm film digitizer
David Brown
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Centerville, UT, USA
Registered: Oct 2019


 - posted October 28, 2019 10:54 PM      Profile for David Brown   Email David Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kamel/Stan
My Capstan motor arrived and I have mounted it. The shaft will not rotate in my fingers. Might be bad? There was no pinout or wiring information included. The board is marked with: m1.gnd.c1-c2. 3.3v .m2. I could assume those correspond with the wires. Where does the 12v+ go? I'd like to see it rotate or return it.

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted October 29, 2019 02:26 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The idea of the sprocket/capstan does seems like a good idea for those who want to scan films and leave the machine to it, but it does raise a couple of things for me personally.

You will find settings need changing during a scan....

Having scanned around 900ft now, I have had the odd splice and frame that got stuck, as I baby sit each scan, it was quick to correct, but in the final image sequence I did get static frame for a second.

Also by baby sitting, I don't have to rely on auto exposure, I can change settings scene to scene.

Gamma, exposure, gain, hue can all be adjusted during a baby sitting scan, from scene to scene.

I wouldn't like to have to do that in post.

Every reel I have done so far, I have changed settings scene to scene.

If a 400ft reel was scanning unattended, you wouldn't know about stuck frames until you had rendered out the sequence and would then have to trawl through literally thousands of stills to find the stuck frames to delete and re render.

Hugely time consuming..... given how many stills are generated.

Some of my reels, in excess of 7000 stills, and I haven't done a 400ft yet.

You are going to need a program to let you scroll through thousands of thumbnails quickly and efficiently that will also batch rename.

I use Faststone which is very easy to use, it also has a batch re numbering tool, which is very very useful.

If you have to delete static image files, where the film stuck, bear in mind the entire sequence of images will need to be renumbered from beginning to end, or your software will only load up to the point the number sequence breaks.

Also bear in mind, each scan needs the #number and name changing before scanning, or the IC software will end up numbering and naming images from where the last scan left off.

Something to think about, and consider how your work flow will develop.....

In other news.

I discovered that the IC software sometimes hangs at the splash screen with the camera connected.

Easy fix turned out to be, start IC capture without the camera, when it gets to the point where it says it can't find a device, plug in the camera, it will appear in the device window and away you go.

[ October 29, 2019, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted October 29, 2019 04:55 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David,
Stan had noticed that we had to put very short screws for the motor mount. Check if they do not block the blades. The wiring diagram was given by Stan :

https://photos.app.goo.gl/raWZMCiemmsucdDN6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LJajGbSQG1fujdZB8

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted October 29, 2019 08:04 AM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Kamel. So David if you connect the 12V between the motor+ and motor- the motor should run. This is not a stepper just a DC motor.
If the screws are binding, you can add a thin washer between the motor and the mounting bracket. That will back the screws off.

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Terry Dowling
Junior
Posts: 24
From: Ashford, Kent, UK
Registered: Sep 2019


 - posted October 29, 2019 10:38 AM      Profile for Terry Dowling   Email Terry Dowling   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I finally received camera today through Scorpion Vision, but after removing protective film found the sensor is really dirty:(

Anyone else have any issues with theirs? Not sure if I should get it returned for replacement or try clean it up? What is best way to clean it?

 -

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted October 29, 2019 11:04 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would speak to Robyn by phone, she is most helpful, and email the photo to them.

DO NOTHING TO IT UNTIL YOU SPEAK TO THEM and they have seen the photo, perhaps take a couple more, from a different perspective, up close.

They wouldn't know, as the sensor is wrapped in light proof plastic and can't be seen.

01590 679333

in other news, HAWKEYE modders

I have come to the conclusion that if anyone doing the Hawkeye mod thinks they can set up a reel of film to scan, and walk away leaving everything on automatic and get a good scan?

It is not going to happen.

The more I scan, the more I learn.

Automatic scans are a thing of the past, once the mod is done.

That is a good thing, but you're going to have to find the time to baby sit reels...

I am happy to be proved wrong, but I don't think I will be..

I am having so much fun clicking exposure and gamma and contrast as every single frame passes under the camera.

Today's scan was a mess, I hope Weds scans will be better.

[ October 29, 2019, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]

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David Brown
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Centerville, UT, USA
Registered: Oct 2019


 - posted October 29, 2019 11:53 AM      Profile for David Brown   Email David Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
STAN
My motor did not come with and screws or wiring! I had some long 3mm screws and had to cut them down. The motor was completely mounted in the Wolverine when I applied power and the screws could be the problem. The shaft was very difficult to rotate before I mounted it, I will pull it out and test it without screws.

Thanks Kamel , I remember seeing the capstan wiring now. At the time I thought I would need that when connecting up the circuit board and didn't focus on the motor pinout descriptions.
I'm not able to give you feedback on the 8mm cogs yet. I had a difficult time printing it. The best one has very short pins, so I'm going to order those from Thingyverse. I'm using PLA and don't expect to jump into ABS anytime soon at home.

Thank you for the pulley designs. I have tried to print 8mm pulleys long before this project and had some success, yours are very strong and freely rotate. I've replace all the Wolverine pulleys and may need to add more with the external winders I've printed from Thingyverse. I'm now able to use 800 foot reels, if they were shimmed up and inch or so I could use 1200' reels. Don't see a lot of those, I only have one.

HOWEVER, That brings to mind Mike's case for doing scene by scene captures. If the final capture is important, you must spend time reviewing the finished product. The time spent re-mounting the film, FINDING the problem scene....
I've done that! It takes too much time. The larger the reel, the greater variety of exposure settings.

I don't know what capacity the IC has for setting white balance manually. I suggest always white balancing the light source. Do it before any film is loaded. I have been capturing 8mm stills for some time now. I've used flash, incandescent, and led. Auto white balance in the camera is not always exact. Using auto white balance in post can work, but there's less color headroom available in a jpeg to change colors. BMP or TIFF have more, but are only 8bit. The best results I've had is with matching the light source in advance. Some times the film will go beyond normal colors, some shots are indoors with daylight film and vice versa. If your light source is balanced in camera, these are easier to correct.

The capstan might cause a problem (running nonstop) during an intentional capture stop? Another switch on the panel? I think the capstan will react faster to get the film moving again than I will. That's with torn sprockets, not sure about a bad cement splice on the left side of the gate. Check for those when cleaning.

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted October 29, 2019 12:00 PM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only auto setting I am using is white balance, everything else I am adjusting scene by scene.

Auto white balance seems to be doing a great job.

Much better than I can do by mouse clicks.

Auto exposure is a NO NO as the square of white LED light thro' the sprocket hole will misguide the camera in dark scenes.

My reels will get many scans until I perfect the art of a single exposure click, or gamma correct.

Early days of cine film scanning frame by frame.

This is not Wolverine 'pop on a reel and leave it' and then show Aunty Joan her memories on your macbook....

This is the Holy Grail of frame by frame to still image.

My settings are very important now, in a way I never even begun to realise when 'James Stanley Bond Jelavic' came along with his amazing mods.

One good thing, you get plenty of exercise jumping up and down to go click the mouse!

It is a hugely time consuming project, so if you want auto everything.... send your reels to a scanning house.

I have been a sound engineer for some 30 years, I know that I need to get the best sound at the point of recording with my microphone, before I mix it.

I am now learning very quickly the same is true with capturing still images to process to video files.

A radio shack PZM microphone will perform really well, if you place it correctly in the first place.

The same is true with an accurate camera pointed at some cine film.

 -

If you are considering, or doing The HAWKEYE MOD

Invest in some memory cards.

Don't use your hard drive.

If you must use it, empty the trash, defrag your drive once a week minimum

You can move to another machine with flash memory, mid scan, for a quick test render with one card, pop in another 'same name' card and carry on scanning....

Writing tiff images to card is much better than writing them to a spinning disk ..

Where we have come to with digital storage is simply incredible. 128Gb on something the size of a postage stamp.

One thing this process has taught me. live preview screen with a reliable picture, is Paramount.

If your preview screen is pants, your scans will be pants.

I have to find some kind of test image to put on my Sony tv, to try and calibrate some kind of balance.

Today's scan was very poor.

Nothing more than my preview screen not telling me the truth.

 -

Tuesday scanning....
I scanned 150ft feet today. Disaster.

[ October 30, 2019, 04:53 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]

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David Brown
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Centerville, UT, USA
Registered: Oct 2019


 - posted October 29, 2019 04:04 PM      Profile for David Brown   Email David Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike
These are what I would use to adjust a monitor quickly. Maybe not these specific images below. Tonal range is brightness and contrast on the monitor. You should be able to identify every shade.

Color charts are too hard, even if you know what they should look like. This kodak scene has a vast range of common colors.

Newer TVs may not let you shift colors hues, adjusting brightness and contrast will impact the saturation. Do the black and white first. Then play with saturation.

Not the best, hope it's a start.

Flickr

Flickr

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted October 29, 2019 04:17 PM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am most grateful David.

I will put those on my tv during wednesday shenanigans with the scanner.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted October 29, 2019 06:57 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The shaft should be easy to rotate. Looks like your screws are too long.
Regarding the capstan note, the capstan motor stops when the stepper is turned off.

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David Brown
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Centerville, UT, USA
Registered: Oct 2019


 - posted October 29, 2019 10:52 PM      Profile for David Brown   Email David Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Stan
I removed the motor and applied 12v from two sources, a 2 amp transformer, and a 12v 14 amp battery. Nothing. I put the shaft in my drill motor and ran it very slowly. There is soft resistance on each revolution.
I'm done. It's $10 motor. I'll just buy another one.

Just wondering. Mike are you using VirtualDub2? I had a quick look at VD ver 1.10.4. It won't load tifs. I converted the tifs I had to bmps. In they went.

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted October 30, 2019 04:49 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
VirtualDub 2 build 43048

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted October 30, 2019 05:42 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike,

Can we do worse than the original Wolverine ???
(your last scan) it's incredible ! [Confused]

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted October 30, 2019 06:53 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
merci Kamel

Some scans look good, yesterdays scan went in the trash can.

Some Wolverine videos have been very good, the Wolverine compression is the killer.

I hope to use a calibration image on my capture screen, I hope that will make a difference to my scans.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted October 30, 2019 08:07 AM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Try connecting the power to the motor contacts David. Maybe a bad crimp at the connector. Mike, agree, some Wolverine videos are nice, bright and full of color, but then it comes in that digital garbage and spoils everything. The worst part is that one becomes aware of it and app probably appears worse than what it is.
It really bothers me on faces and certain natural scenes like the waves, grass etc.

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted October 30, 2019 08:18 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks to David for the black and white test image.

My screen did need a little brightness to see all the bars.

I probably won't scan until Friday, when I will find out how it affects my preview screen.

---------------------------------------------------------
The fact you couldn't pause a wolferine scan without getting ghosting really annoyed me.

Hawkeye stills are such a blessing.
You could never pull a still from a Wolferine scan.

A wolf in sheeps clothing......

---------------------------------------------------------

Here is my Wednesday top tip for VirtualDub users.

So, you loaded in 7000 images to make a video.

Perhaps you want to export segments of the sequence.

I know I do, quick test render, without having to export the entire sequence for example.

A clip for social media perhaps.

Once you have set frame rate, crop, compression:

Find the segment you want and then choose 'select range' from the video menu.

When you save the video, it will just save that part of the sequence.

Very handy.

 -

[ October 31, 2019, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]

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David Brown
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Centerville, UT, USA
Registered: Oct 2019


 - posted October 31, 2019 11:18 PM      Profile for David Brown   Email David Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stan, you nailed it.
I did an autopsy on the motor. There is barely any clearance inside before the bolts hit the stator. Why the mounting holes could not have been .5mm closer to center?
Look at the depth of the threaded mounting holes before screwing in the bolt, there is maybe 4-5 turns and done.
Anyway, if anyone else does the capstan, there is less room than you think for the mounting bolts.

Amazon is sold out, new motor coming from China by row boat.

 -

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted November 01, 2019 03:01 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David,

Another link to order this motor :

http://www.uxcell.com/micro-motor-12v-4300r pm-%20wire-high-speed-encoder-motor-for-diy-hobby-toy-cars-remote-control-p-1323950.html

I do not know if we can replace by another model, Stan could better advise you.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted November 01, 2019 08:20 AM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I ordered the motor from the link that Kamel posted. It took a while before it got in. The snail mail. Unfortunately i currently do not have any alternatives.

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted November 02, 2019 09:35 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Terry did you get in touch with scorpion vision about the condition of the sensor?

Any outcome?

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Terry Dowling
Junior
Posts: 24
From: Ashford, Kent, UK
Registered: Sep 2019


 - posted November 02, 2019 10:06 AM      Profile for Terry Dowling   Email Terry Dowling   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mike, yes I was just told to clean the sensor by both The Imaging Source and Scorpion Vision. Here is the link I was given. https://theimagingsource.deskpro.com/en/kb/articles/how-to-clean-the-camera-sensor

I just find it odd for a brand new sealed camera to have a dirty sensor.

Anyway it's all good now after cleaning with alcohol.

Just waiting to receive board from Stan. Do you know how long postage took from US for you?

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted November 02, 2019 10:18 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am pleased to hear you got it sorted, and a useful link for cleaning the sensor, from them what know, as a bonus.

Postage from Stan is ten working days to me in W Sussex..

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted November 02, 2019 10:44 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I sent the board via regular mail Terry. That worked OK before if the package is small. Maybe they stopped it in customs and returned it back. Will check when I get back home.

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted November 03, 2019 02:31 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am really struggling to get consistent scans.

Auto exposure is just not going to work, partly because it's reaction time is so slow, the moment is over before a change has happened, the light from the sprocket is having an effect in dark scenes and in light scenes the auto focus in just not responding how I would imagine it to.
..
Using manual exposure is almost impossible for the scene at the moment,
How did the wolverine manage to make it look so well exposed?

I am trying to scan a scene shot with bright sunlight and darker foreground, all I can get get it either a bleached out sky or a foreground so dark the detail is gone.

I have tried with manual gain and auto gain, manual exposure and auto exposure.

The wolverine managed to expose this with great clarity.

I use Gamma and exposure to try and make it look nice but just keep stalling.

Trying to scan a very dark scene all I ended up with by increasing exposure manually was to have light bleed in the edge of the frame from the sprocket hole.

I also notice the back light control is not active and I can't seem to make it active, greyed out.

I would be interested to know how other folk are coping.

Evenly lit scenes are no problem, they come out very nice

here is an example of trying to capture a very dark scene, to increase exposure and this is what I get.

edit I spoke of auto focus in this post, I meant auto exposure. I haven't deleted it as it gets mentioned in the next page.

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[ November 04, 2019, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]

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