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Author
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Topic: Overall User Results With VITAFILM or FilmRenew
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Charles Watkins
Junior
Posts: 12
From: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
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posted February 26, 2011 06:29 PM
Greetings, My name is Charles and I'm new to the forum. I'm pleased in becomming a member. I'm a collector and entusiast of many forms of media and one of them is with vintage home movies.
I try my best in not posting questions on forums for which there may already be answers for in previous post. Forgive me however with my first post being so long, but on one topic I've thus far have not managed to find much input on the web anywhere, which are individual testimonials regarding the use of the film conditioners Vitafilm and FilmRenue and the overall results they provided with prints suffering from VS.
Many seem to use them but no one seems to openly comment or give testimonials to their overall results. Even the Film Preservaion Guilds make no mention or reccomendations for their use, however some of it's members have privately used them in their collections, but withour further comments.
I bought my first gallon of VITAFILM a few months ago as a first line of treatment for films which have a vinegar smell. Some of the films which I have soaked for the 2 days as directed, will still emit a faint VS smell just prior to sealing them for a 3-6 month curation period. My other lines of treatments after the curation period, will be with Molecular Seives and perhaps even freezing, but not without furthur readings and trial with less significant film samples.
My question is for those who have used VITAFILM or FILMRENEW, and their experiences with how they actually performed after an extended period of time with prints which had VS?
Further, I also have issues with treating healthy films with the same batch of VF solution which I had used with treating prints which had advanced stages of VS. Vitafilm claims this is acceptable and will not affect healty prints. I find it difficult treat rare and one of a kind films of historical value without knowing the experiences of others. I at the same time, can't buy VF by the truck load.
Forgive me for this most loaded and bloated posting, however any input towards this will be greatly appreciated. I thank you for your time in reading.
Charles
[ February 27, 2011, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Charles Watkins ]
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I will edit profusely.
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Charles Watkins
Junior
Posts: 12
From: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
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posted March 01, 2011 05:54 PM
Hi Dan, I agree and would normally not want to keep films in my collection that were suffering VS, but some of the films I try to treat contain rare and historical footage. Since they are home movies they are often one of a kind. I would at least like to try and stabalize the film well enough to prevent furthur decay from VS and have it transferred or duped. Luck would have it that I recently landed a 400ft reel of 16mm Kodachrome with exceptional footage of TIMES SQUARE in New York City. It was shot around November of 1942 and it is loaded with exceptionally well shot footage.
There is no curling or dimensional damage, but it has a VERY strong vinegar smell. I've managed well with stabalizing similar films in the past but this one seems to be proggressing a bit more strongly. I've seen this happen with films before, and I know this time to act more quickly. I have been letting it air out for about a week, and the VS smell has seemingly grown much stronger and some mild curling of the film is more noticeable on the edges. I tried something a bit more drastic tiis morning which had worked in the past with other films, and it seems to be working well with this one...for now. I know this will likely draw a lot of rebuke, but cleaning a film with WD-40 will sometimes do a good job with taming the rate of VS when it seems to be progressing at a faster rate than usuall. I have a fesh batch of Molecular Sieve on order and the quicker I can isolate this in the freezer, the better.
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I will edit profusely.
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Charles Watkins
Junior
Posts: 12
From: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
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posted June 03, 2011 01:41 PM
FOLLOW UP: Greetings again, Last week I started opening film cans in which I had treated prints with VITAFILM. Most of the prints I treated have been stored unopened for 6 months. The initial results are mixed, but most of the prints have displayed some noticeable benefit while a few did not. It did particualarly well with some of the films which had suffered a noticeable degree of curling, in which I had back-winded (against the curl) onto their reels just prior to curing them in their film cans for 6 months. After allowing them to fully air out (in a brown paper bag) and rewinding them back to their original state, they do indeed apear quite improved and even are most likely projectable. I will have to add that I don't think Vitafilm is a miracle by far, and some films fared quite differently. There are other drawbacks to it's use as well; most notably...the FUMES! (I will try and post more on it later) Charles
[ June 04, 2011, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: Charles Watkins ]
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I will edit profusely.
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Charles Watkins
Junior
Posts: 12
From: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
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posted June 04, 2011 02:12 AM
Greetings Michael, First please allow me to thank the forum for allowing such a timely period for editing and making corrections in ones post! I make so many more errors when I type threads through my mobile phone.
Anyhow, Are you really able to deal with the fumes that well? I accidentally left a jar of it uncovered one night, only to wake up the next day and find that almost half of it had already evaporated. It's sixteen feet from floor to ceiling in my loft apartment, and my ears were ringing at their peak for months. I liked to have never flushed all the fumes out, and the people upstairs had worried I had a drug lab set up...lol.
I appreciate your mentioning against re-using solutions that were used on prints with VS. As I ran out of fresh stock, I treated a few films with some used solution, and these films do not seem to be shaking the smell of active VS, as many of the others have. Many have stated that Vitafilm will only mask the smell of VS, but I can still detect the smell of vinegar quite well, even when it's blended with the spirits of camphor.
I'm curious if you also might have noticed that Vitafilm seems a bit tempermental. I noticed most of the conditioning effects to have kicked-in when the heat of the summer had started. Vitafilm performs best it seems in temps above 75 degrees.
I've also tried Filmguard, (but won't go there) but I'd almost bet that a tanker full of WD-40 backs up to the plant in the dead of night. I'm not sure what else is added to it, but my guess would be maple syrup. BTW Michael, next time you have a junk film for experimentation that is plagued with VS, try drenching it with some WD-40, and putting it in a brown paper bag and leaving it in the garage for a few weeks. I think you might be pleasantly surprised by the results. I won't argue against those who suggest against it, but just try it. It cleans off well, but takes about three runs between a cloth. I use Rasco cloth. (I hope I don't sound like a salesman...I swear I'm not.)
[ June 04, 2011, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Charles Watkins ]
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I will edit profusely.
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted June 15, 2011 06:36 PM
quote:
I was also pleased with how well it allowed for dissolving of camphor blocks in a separated batch solution I poured in a jar. Maybe good for using in special applications which might benefit from having more camphor...and it is much cheaper than VitaFilm!
A must read to everyone that participates on this Forum
I do not recommend for anyone to create any "bromide" for any application, that has not been researched and tested.
Hobbyists potentially run a grave risk, to your health and let alone to the films.
There is not any guarantee in how this could affect health and life in future years.
Film Renew is classified as a stoddard solvent.
Paint thinner is also a stoddard solvent, and I would not apply paint thinner to films by any means.
Paint thinner and Film Renew have recorded flash points. These chemicals also have threshold exposure limits, and are measured in ppt - parts per million.
Ask these questions:
1.) What is the purpose of camphor?
2.) What is the purpose of paint thinner?
3.) What is the flash point of Film Renew that is mixed with camphor?
4.) What is the unknown byproduct from mixed chemicals, and the compounded chemistry that could jeopardize your health?
- Why? For a lousy solution for film preservation?
These variables present the unknown.
Bleach and ammonia are household cleaning products, and should never be mixed together. The combination creates deadly fumes.
The U.S. Federal Government established OSHA and OOSH to protect people in the workplace.
There were construction workers in California that were given cleaning agents to use on the job, which also had unknown affects. As time progressed it was learned that the wives of the workers could not conceive children and this was due to the specific cleaning chemical used at work.
PESH: The Public Employee Safety and Health Act, and the Hazardous Communication Act became law. It mandates information to be made public, and that everyone has a right to know. The Right-to-Know Act became law.
The law is extended to the public. Household cleaners, chemicals, waxes, detergents, soaps, hair shampoo and conditioner, automotive products - you name it, mandates companies to supply by law and to release an MSDS - Material Safety Data Sheet at anyones request.
Hobbyists also have a Right-to-Know. It's best to use a commercial and industry product, that has been lab tested in order to safeguard the public's health.
Learning how to interpret chemicals and ppt is relevant to understand exposure threshold limits.
The relative lower value represents the concentration it takes to fill the air to a level of toxicity.
This is serious. We do not know the complexity and interaction of chemicals. Leave that to a chemist. Film Renew was created, when VitaFilm was not being manufactured any longer.
Larry Urbanski went to a chemist to create Film Renew. It's a tested product.
It's made with cleaning and lubricating properties, to reduce any wear and tear on the film and projectors. 35mm projectionists used wax, to "edge wax" a film for theatrical presentations and it's not recommended for the home.
I spoke about MSDS in an earlier thread.
Be careful and enjoy the hobby.
[ June 15, 2011, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Michael De Angelis ]
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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!
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Charles Watkins
Junior
Posts: 12
From: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
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posted June 16, 2011 05:22 AM
I've long used camphor spirits with killing mold and fungus growths on infected films. It is my first line of treatment prior to freezing the films and removing mold growths that have embetted into the emulsion. I pride myself in having achievied many successful film restorations with it's application, but I am a singular practitioner. I've also used camphor as well as glycerin with old diacetate films which have developed a stubborn spiraling curl, which I often encounter with old diacetates. They are both known plastcizers, however camphor in my opinion generates a better response with diacetate films.
Camphor oil as many of you are familiar were also used in older times, as many old film cans have a special resivor for dripping with camphor oil which was retained underneath a metal grate. Vitafilm also contains camphor, but as to what ammount is anyones guess. Petroleum distilates and various other hydrocarbon solvents have long been used in various brands of film cleaners, and are most likely even used in products like Film-Guard and VITAFILM. They should be less of a concern for their useage with films which are actively decaying with VS, but this is only in my humble opinion.
It nevertheless no doubtly pays to do ones homework before dealing with solvents and chemical agents of any kind, as I was to learn when being hasty with making ambrotypes. Where I gained myself a dark nitrate (burn) stain on my right thumb which had lated for almost a decade. I should not speak so haphazzard on the handling of camphor without some considerations for it's health risk. However, some warnings are often described in excess for their potential liability risk, and if you read the haz-mat data on salt, you might realize just how some descriptions are taken to the extreme. I myself don't generally employ use of chemicals without some level of care and pre-consideration, and when experimenting with something new, I always try to employ it with less than usually significant materials that are of little or no value. I've had my losses as well as rewards in my trials and errors with employing the use of various types of chemicals and products.
Many might think some of the materials are not worth the effort, but I've managed obtaining images from what many would likely have written off as impossible to salvage. I just recently managed to save and scan roughly 95% of a 16mm film which had become so advanced in it's decay that it had fused the film can shut with a blueish type of build up which had to be cut open with a dremel tool. The film was home-movie footage that had been shot in Hiroshima, Japan in 1937. While the footage is not pristine, it does nevertheless reveal a rare glimpse into the life of a city before it had been destroyed with the bomb. It is not a mass produced duplicate of Tom Mix, but a true one of a kind.
[ June 19, 2011, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: Charles Watkins ]
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I will edit profusely.
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