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Author
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Topic: Scrapping Faded Prints
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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004
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posted March 14, 2018 04:37 AM
Hello Mark
My difference of opinion regarding VS stems from a number of prints I have seen over the years where only one part of a three part feature, all stored tight in boxes together, has VS and the other two are fine. No one has ever proven to me why three parts, all acetate, can live together literally for twenty or more years and yet only one gets VS. If it is 'catching' why did the other two parts not get 'infected'?
A retired Shell Research chemist friend of mine had some thoughts about this and, even though he was not a cine film man, concluded the VS problem must have started because of differences in the way the different parts were processed - ie: actually at the time the print was made. All OK for a number of years then the base starts to deteriorate. But not one iota of proof it has passed to the other parts even when in the same box for a long, long time.
This is fact, not the often read horror stories that somehow acetic acid can travel between a distance from one reel to another and 'infect' other reels.
Ones I did throw out for VS that did not project or had the classic octagonal look and were sticky on the reel included Swingtime, The French Connection, Stage Fright and some Disney shorts that had faded too.
The only feature I have kept with VS is, as mentioned, It's A Wonderful Life, and I will continue to do so until it loses focus or won't wind flat - the VS shorts are some Disney extracts, IB Tech, flat and beautiful on screen.
Decaying Nitrate though - ah yes there is another story altogether and although my 35mm Nitrates (all gone to pro archives now) had no sign of breakdown, even in those over 100 years old, it is a film base to be respected, carefully handled and stored, and never messed with at any time when it starts to decay.
Kevin
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted March 14, 2018 11:44 AM
I must say that I DID scrap one film in all my collecting ...
I had a print of "Birth Of A Nation", full feature, on some form of standard 8mm, and it even had a magnetic stripe and soundtrack ...
... but it also got a very bad vinegar smell and it got to the point where i had to toss it. i found out later that the venegar smell might just have been the glur that held the mag stripe on the print, (at least, I have heard that this can be the case with some vinegar smell issues).
The shame of it all was that it was incredibly sharp, but it was starting to get so warped as well, that I "binned" it. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler
Posts: 399
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted March 14, 2018 01:00 PM
I must say that I am also a bit bothered by people saying that "I don't understand why anyone would watch a red film and therefore I throw it in the bin". I really dislike red film and for 99 out of 100 films, I wouldn't want to waste my time on it, but hey that is me. I have a few prints of obscure East European animation, and they have lost most of their color. I would love to have these films in the original color, but I am not even sure if film prints exist with the original color. For these ones, I am perfectly happy to watch them as they are. And I do watch them more then some other films that are perfect in any way.
When I first started collecting, I was a lot less fuzzy about the quality of the prints. I just wanted to feed my projectors. Over time I have gotten rid of most inferior prints, and either replaced them with better quality or let them go completely. Mostly sold for pennies or given away, but in a few cases thrown out because I couldn't find anyone who wanted it.
Many years ago I ended up with about 60 full length 35mm features. About halve of them were faded Eastman prints. One of them was a badly faded print of a John Wayne movie. I wouldn't have been interested in that film even if it had been in perfect condition, but you know, people have their reasons to like a film. I put out a list of the prints that I wanted to get rid off with honest descriptions of the state they were in. I got a response from a guy who lived elsewhere in Europe who desperately wanted that John Wayne film. He had bought the jacket that mr Wayne wears in that film at an auction and he wanted to watch that film on 35mm while wearing that jacket.... We all have our guilty pleasures and if they are as innocent as this, how could I deny him that pleasure? He spent a fair amount of money to ship 20kgs of film across Europe and everybody was happy. It is 20 years later and he has probably found a better print of the film by now, but at that time it was just all that was available. These films might not be unique, but new prints are not being made anymore and we can't just walk into a high street shop to pick up a new one. Let's not be too strict (?) about this!
- Rob
[ March 14, 2018, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Rob Koeling ]
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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004
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posted March 14, 2018 01:57 PM
Hello Tom
VS is not connected to the emulsion it is the film base, acetate, that is changing and emmiting acetic acid.
Colour or black and white acetate films can be affected.
IB Tech, Agfa, Kodachrome, Kodak SP, even Eastman LPP can be a VS print if the base is acetate. Any guage too, 8mm, 16mm 35mm etc.
Newer film if on polyester stock cannot develop VS they are not made up of the same chemicals as acetate stock at all.
It is rarer than you may think so don't worry too much, a bit like bad news in the papers - you always hear when a collector finds a stinky print but they never mention the hundreds of non stinky ones.
Kevin
[ March 14, 2018, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Kevin Clark ]
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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted March 14, 2018 06:48 PM
Any film worth showing should be in the best condition possible,I used to show films at the local school some years ago and made sure everything shown was perfect,most of the films I've ever binned started at this time,I was always looking for new titles and the 200 and 400ft Disney's were always popular but finding unfaded titles became a mission at times,I soon built up a collection but did end up with a few faded purchases,those binned were the sort of thing you find all over eBay and see in abundance at every film fair so no loss there,400ft Star Wars (you know the rare one) I've had quite a few red prints of this and again still loads around,these I just wouldn't watch and being films that were produced in vast numbers it's no loss,Mark
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Elmo GS1200 1.0 lens
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