Sound Striping in the USA

[Brad Miller]

...Any accusations of FRAUD or EXTORTION: be prepared to back them up. Do you really want to go there?
REALLY?

Calm down Burton. You had a good transaction and that's great for you, but Alberto needs to answer the question that many people have asked him a number of times before which he always dodges. WHY does he FORCE people who want his red subtractive treatment to pay extra to have the print mag striped and recorded? As long as he can't answer that very simple and straightforward question, Adam's terms "extortion" and "fraud" certainly does seem to be accurate here for the reason that business practice is effectively forcing people to pay for something they do not want.

Case in point, if you went into an electronics store to buy a new tv and they forced you to buy a new sound system if you wanted to be able to buy that tv, that's extortion and fraud.

Since you are Alberto's crusader you can reach out to him and get his detailed answer here to that question which has been asked far too many times and then post it here. If it's a legit answer, then it will prove all naysayers wrong and invalidate the extortion and fraud comment. On the flip side if Alberto won't explain why he requires an optical print to be mag striped and recorded, then that proves the aforementioned opinion correct as stated.

[Joe Taffis]

Calm down Brad. I remember your post griping about the ORS treatment, so I know how you feel about Alberto and his company. My opinion on this matter is that nobody has a right to tell a business owner how to run his business. If you don’t like the business’s rules or services no one is twisting your arm to use it.

[Douglas Meltzer]

Joe,

My concern here is when that business's rules change without properly notifying the customer. This issue was raised in an earlier thread. People had sent in their films to have them striped, only to be told after the fact that no striping would be done unless the company also did the audio recording. That information should have been told to the customer beforehand.

[David Baker]

Last year This was all brought up before : Film service in Europe High-jacking the super 8mm hobby - please read - 8mm Forum (film-tech.com)

[Brad Miller]

Joe,

My concern here is when that business's rules change without properly notifying the customer. This issue was raised in an earlier thread. People had sent in their films to have them striped, only to be told after the fact that no striping would be done unless the company also did the audio recording. That information should have been told to the customer beforehand.

Which begs the question, did Alberto return the films and also pay the return shipping costs for the would-have-been customers that didn't want their film striped but were not told upfront about that requirement?

And yes Joe I am quite calm. You are confusing me with Burton who was the one yelling threats. I do agree with you though that a business owner has the right to run their company any way they see fit, but it is unethical for a business to not be completely upfront about things and answer questions ahead of providing the product or service. Remember also that people who have been burned by a company have the right and also a responsibility to warn others of a bad experience.

[David Baker]

Remember also that people who have been burned by a company have the right and also a responsibility to warn others of a bad experience.

And that is exactly what I did .
Thanks Brad .

[Alan Myers]

Certainly sounds like a company to avoid, with these practices a company cannot be defended.
why on earth would they insist on stripping an optical print when it was sent for treatment of fade?

[Osi Osgood]

Well, that was my whole issue. I had no problem with they're actual color treatment, or ORS, but I never received an actual explanation as to why the mag striping was actually necessary on an optical print, as, if anything, it would seem that the ORS treatment would actually make the optical sound louder, at least in theory. If the optical track had faded to a pinkish color, ORS treatment would darken the optical tracks pink portions, returning the sound without as much hiss on the track. I agree with Brad, and I bear Alberto no ill will. I would honestly love to hear an honest, plausible explanation as to why the mag track was a necessary addition, and if so, it will certainly shut up the critics, as well as vindicate Alberto and his business.

[Lee Mannering]

Hi Osi. I've had more than one optical print of Goldfinger that had been paste striped which fell away back in el day.

The German stripe was excellent but we have had a blip, it happened even to Derann God bless them. They will get it right I am sure. The last mail I had was they were not aware of any problems but I'm sure they are on the case now with returns happening to sort out.

Movie Mag have done some great personal striping for me always reliable. Sometimes things get lost in international translation perhaps. These services are valuable to us who use them.

Thankfully no one has asked for deposits back for a delayed box 2 of Reel Col Faves as they resolve the issue, but it will be worth the wait!

[Steve Lee]

When a film print is produced with an optical soundtrack, the soundtrack is added to the film after the image has been processed. using a second chemistry to insure that the soundtrack remains black.
It could be that the colour retrieval chemistry practice removes or fades the optical soundtrack. leaving you with a mute print.

[Osi Osgood]

It is possible Steve. From what I understand from all that has been put out there on the internet, there was an extra coating added on later optical sound prints, and this keeps the optical track from fading. There are earlier optical prints that have pinkish fade and, as I stated earlier, it would seem that those optical tracks, on earlier optical sound prints, would benefit.

[Graham Ritchie]

Just curious

1....Are the mono striped tracks laminated on polyester?
2...Without a balance stripe, how do you compensate that one side of the film is most likely, to be more in focus than its opposite side in the gate? plus, how does the film look sitting on a reel? as years ago, balance stripe was used for that purpose and not for recording, that was to come later.

I did my home striping back in the 1970s on a Rexette on our "own" home movies, to this day the stripe is still ok, in saying that, the film stock was acetate not polyester.

Just a thought, could you not do your own striping?, its not that hard, however you will need to make up and "test" your own "very special" super duper bonding agent, for it to stick any laminated stripe to polyester.

This is the striping machine I used long ago. I sold my original one, but this photo from the internet its the same one, anyway best of luck with striping, history does show though that, its always been a hit and miss process.

[Larry Arpin]

The optical track is printed at the same time as the picture negative. An applicant is applied to the film during processing. I wonder if Andec can print an optical track. Most of us have optical capability on a GS or ST Elmo. But maybe that is wishful thinking.

[Phillip Campey]

I really do admire all you guys that are producing new super 8mm prints but I think soon they will become unaffordable to produce and to buy. I have really supported these releases buy buying a few but I have had a few issues with some of the prints, I never ended up with a super 8 Jaws print as the first had the streaky lines and the replacement had a weird judder, these were obviously issues with the lab, Dave gave me a refund but I would have still loved a print. I purchased Lees latest release but it has a scratch on the far right of frame with is probably caused by the current striping issue. I'm hanging onto it as I can frame it so it does not show. To me if the new striping system is damaging costly prints which will soon becoming even more costly with Kodak introducing a 17% price rise in march, would it not be simpler to go with Albertos striping and recording, it may be a bit more expensive but his is a tried and tested system that I have never had any problems with.

[Osi Osgood]

Though I like these new releases a lot, and MAJOR KUDOs to Dave, Lee, Adam, Steve and possible others for they're steadfast work, but I can see the writing on the wall as well, and I think that this brave revival of super 8 releases maybe coming to an end. Still, I am quite thankful. Adam, just wanting to day that I am sorry to see your topic hijacked. Getting back to it, I still think that it would be possible to take an existing super 8 striper, that can only take up to 400ft, and replace the 400ft arm with a 600ft arm from a "parts" projector just sitting around.