Selecting a projector for both formats

[Jason Moffatt]

Can you remove the film before it gets to the end if you need to with the mark s 709 as this can’t be done with the 800 series machines ?.

[Shane C. Collins]

After attempting repair on five different film projectors (success with B&H 185, Eumig and Chinon; complete failure with the Kodak Pageant and the Kodak Moviedeck), I can say from my limited experience that Eumig design is straightforward and it appears that they kept things the same for many years. The 709 looks like a really rugged piece of kit. I love the way it looks.

Todd, the Eumig Mark S 709 is in fact a very rugged projector! Of all the projectors I've owned over the years, the 709 is my favorite. I probably sound like a broken record here on the forum, but the 709 was probably the best dual gauge projector Eumig made. The 3 top features for me include: The twist-to-focus lens system, semi auto-loading of film, and the ability to run silent films with the amp turned off, and the heads retracted from the film path. No other projector, that I can think of from those days, can claim to do those 3 simple things and do them well! I'm not saying there aren't other projectors worth checking out, but the 709 is tough to beat when you look at the competition. If the 800 Series, for example, would have incorporated these 3 simple, yet reliable features I would recommend them, but I simply can't. What I've learned over the past year is projectors using the semi auto-loading systems can't be beat! I've had several full auto-loaders and they have all eaten leader films from time to time. I will not run any such projector with my home movies as a result. OK I am rambling again as usual, LOL!

It goes back to what you mentioned above. All these other decks are not simple to repair, and in some cases can't be repaired. Cheap plastics, worn gears, etc. Most are junk as a result! The Kodak Moviedeck is probably at the top of the list for being the worst ever made, all plastic 70's crap. You are right when you mentioned Eumig's designs as being straightforward. But, they eventually, like many of the other manufacturers of the day, went cheap. This didn't happen until the 900 Series. The early Eumig's built in the mid to late 60's really were the best they put out in my opinion. The top contenders would be the following: The Eumig Mark S, the first Standard 8 sound machine introduced in 1964, followed by the Super 8 version of the Mark S, the Mark S 701 Super 8 only, and the Mark S 709. You might enjoy reading what Phil Johnson said about the 709. I'm also including a photo of the original Mark S Standard 8 projector, a beautifully designed machine!

[Todd Kitchen]

After attempting repair on five different film projectors (success with B&H 185, Eumig and Chinon; complete failure with the Kodak Pageant and the Kodak Moviedeck), I can say from my limited experience that Eumig design is straightforward and it appears that they kept things the same for many years. The 709 looks like a really rugged piece of kit. I love the way it looks.

[Vitali Vadim]

Elmo K100SM not the most successful series?

[Shane C. Collins]

Eumig made projectors without sound for both formats and with 2 sprockets? Other companies, Elmo, Bolex, made such projectors?

Eumig did make silent dual gauge projectors. The one that comes to mind is the Eumig Mark 8 from 1967. This was a full auto-loading machine. It also uses separate gates and sprockets for either Standard 8 or Super 8. Now this machine is an early Eumig, it also uses the twist to focus lenses. It also incorporates the FCR bulb like the sound machines of the same era.

Elmo also made a few very nice dual 8 projectors. The FP series, and the GP made later in the early 70's. The FP series uses a sliding mechanism to change formats. The GP series also used a sliding mechanism. Both series are pretty robust and quite reliable. The GP also has a flip down front, so you can see the film as it's being threaded from the supply reel to the take-up reel. The GP model also has a variable speed control dial. You can dial the speed from about 8 fps to 25 fps.

[Vitali Vadim]

Eumig made projectors without sound for both formats and with 2 sprockets? Other companies, Elmo, Bolex, made such projectors?

[Joseph Banfield]

Well, the earlier Eumig sound projectors like the Mark S (both standard 8 and Super 8 versions), the 701 and the 709 retract all needed sound equipment from the film path when the amplifier is turned off thereby in essence converting itself automatically to a true silent projector. When the amplifier is turned on the pinch roller lowers onto the capstan and the sound head clamps the soundtrack for running sound films. It's quite an ingenious system actually!

Eumig transistorized sound projectors treats all films as if they are sound films, which includes the 810D. In other words, the sound heads are always in contact with the film and the pinch roller is always engaged and in the film path at all times. Not to mention the sound amplifier always running when needed or not and in most cases humming especially with the 800 series. I'm told having the sound heads and pinch roller always engaged does not hurt the film but myself I prefer them disengaged when running silent film...one less contact area is always a good thing with film.

[Vitali Vadim]

Thanks everyone for the answers! The best projector, according to experienced owners, is the S 709D. But I want to ask, is the 810D worth buying? It has two sprockets and sound for both formats. Will it wear out the movies more because of the sound block?

[Shane C. Collins]

Do projectors differ in terms of film wear?
I understood correctly. that sound projectors wear out films more? Only Eumig projectors with a tube amplifier are more careful with films.

I'm not sure about the other projectors but that is true about the early Eumig's. The 709 is a real workhorse and very gentle on sound and silent films

[Vitali Vadim]

Do projectors differ in terms of film wear?
I understood correctly. that sound projectors wear out films more? Only Eumig projectors with a tube amplifier are more careful with films.

[Shane C. Collins]

I see on the photo that Eumig S709 has two sprockets.
Do Eumig 810D and Bolex 18-3 Duo have them too?

Yes, the Eumig 810D does in fact have 2 sprockets, front and rear. The Bolex 18-3 Duo is a sprocket-less projector. The nice feature of the 709 is the open sprocket design compared to the later 800 series. If there is a film issue, while using the 709, you can quickly see what's going on, and correct the problem. With a closed designed machine like the 810D you run the risk of having the film get chewed up before even knowing this is happening. I've owned many projectors over the years. I have come to really like the open sprocket designs of projectors like the 709, and all the early Eumig machines from that era.

[Vitali Vadim]

I see on the photo that Eumig S709 has two sprockets.
Do Eumig 810D and Bolex 18-3 Duo have them too?

[Joseph Banfield]

The Eumig Mark S 709 is far from a rare projector and readily available on all the european eBay sites. The rarer model is the Mark S 701 dedicated to Super 8...the rest of the early ones are common as dirt. But don't expect to find one that won't need some work because they're very old now. The same now applies to the later 800 series as well unless you buy a machine that has been refurbished with new motor mounts, etc. All projectors now are over 40 years old and will need maintenance of some kind, whether a drive belt has turned to goo, rock hard grease, dirty switches and the list goes on.

[Vitali Vadim]

Is a dual format projector always a compromise? Would it be better to use different projectors for each format? Perhaps the Eumig S709 is an excellent universal projector, which was written about here. I'm not sure I can buy it. It is rare and very heavy weight.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Which Sankyo is better? 1000 or 1000H/2000H?

Can't remember the exact detail at the moment, but at the very least try avoiding ANY models using obsolete 8v 50w lamp. The replacement lamp alone may cost about as much as the projector itself.😰 Later models using still available EFP 12v 100w lamp is much more desirable.

That higher model 200H, if I'm not mistaken, would have added functions such as still/slow motion. So that depends if that's worth the (possibly) higher price.