DIY real-time 8mm/S8mm telecine system sample footage

[Scot McCauley]

Internal or external? Magewell makes really good products internal and external. Black Magic as well but those are strictly internal. With the internal capture you can get units with HDMI plus breakout cables to do svhs - composite - component with audio L/R if you transfer old vhs tapes too. Some have the option to flip the image over. Saves a step if capturing from a camcorder pointed at the lens of the projector.

[Randy Grunigen]

I'm considering both internal and external... I could go either way. Thanks for the info Scot.

[Alwyn Adkins]

@Randy, just got my HDMI Mini to Standard cable. I can confirm that the live video from the HS9 is passed through the Startech USB3HDCAP with no issues; no HDCP problems.

[Randy Grunigen]

OK, good to know, thanks. I will check it out.

[Oliver Carter]

Long time lurker here who decided to build one of these for myself as a fun little project. I’ve been using a Reflecta and have been fed up with the 2 hour plus scans and occasional jams. I see the solution presented here as quicker way to capture footage and watch it back before deciding what to scan.

I’ve followed everything advised here (using Stan’s system) and have just given the system a quick test. I am mainly capturing black and white Standard 8, and see most of you here are mainly capturing colour, so hope that there’s no real difference. I’ve encountered some issues with my quick test capture and would appreciate some guidance:

1. The Ulanzi LED Light - is anyone using a diffuser with this or just attaching it with the magnets straight to the metal that is before the gate? I am getting some light bleed and am wondering if I have done something wrong.
2. The projector’s foot makes the Sankyo slightly point upwards. Any solutions for this?
3. On my quick test, the image is rather small on the camera. Are you all zooming in on the camera to get a larger image or cropping in post?
4. The test footage has flicker and occasionally the image disappears slightly. I assume this has something to do with the shutter? Is there an optimum position for the Sankyo speed knob? I am worried that when I removed the gate I’ve done something wrong.

Very new to all this so would appreciate any advice.

Thanks!

[Stan Jelavic]

Hi Oliver,
1. I use the flat white diffuser provided with the light and the dome shaped white cover together.
2. Put something at the bask to lift it up a bit.
3. Make sure the 50mm lens is all the way in (assume you are using the 50mm lens). Bring the camera close to the lens. Adjust zoom.
4. Should have minimal flicker. The speed adjustment knob about half way. If still persistent flicker then check the camera FPS. I use 30FPS camera setting and the projector runs at 15 FPS. If your camera is PAL you can run at 50 and the projector at 16.666.
Hope this helps,
Stan

[Oliver Carter]

Hi Oliver,
1. I use the flat white diffuser provided with the light and the dome shaped white cover together.
2. Put something at the bask to lift it up a bit.
3. Make sure the 50mm lens is all the way in (assume you are using the 50mm lens). Bring the camera close to the lens. Adjust zoom.
4. Should have minimal flicker. The speed adjustment knob about half way. If still persistent flicker then check the camera FPS. I use 30FPS camera setting and the projector runs at 15 FPS. If your camera is PAL you can run at 50 and the projector at 16.666.
Hope this helps,
Stan

Thanks again, Stan.

I've managed to get everything in focus, however I can't seem to get rid of the flicker. I am using the Panasonic HDC-HS9 with 25p mode turned off and the speed dial around half. The flicker is odd; it's not consistent. Silly question, but is flicker more apparent with black and white than colour? Annoying the second-hand Sankyo has just stopped rewinding...it's not going well go far! Ha! Thanks again for the advice, it's much appreciated.

[Stan Jelavic]

Sorry to hear that you are having issues Oliver.
This should work, so something is not set up right in my opinion.
How bad is the flicker? can you post a sample. What are your settings on the camera?
I assume your camera is Pal. You mentioned that the P25 mode is off?
What mode are you running, what FPS?
Try increasing or decreasing the LED brightness and readjust the iris setting. That could also cause issues
i.e. if exposure is too long or too short.

[Robert Held]

Hi Oliver,

The camera's PAL SD card recording/output with 25 fps off is 50 fps interlaced, so you need a projector speed of some whole number divisor of that to ensure no flicker. 50/2 = 25 fps out of the projector would work, but it won't go that fast (it's max per the manual is 22 fps, although I've never measured it), so the next best is 50/3 = 16.67 fps. The speed dial at half is probably a little fast (again per the manual, the speed adjustment is 14 to 22 fps), but then again for your particular projector it might be a little slow so increase/decrease the speed until the flicker goes away. I find it's easiest to monitor this and adjust all the camera settings if the HDMI output of the camera is sent to a monitor or TV. Every setting on the camera should be manual with all image processing or any other automatic functions turned off. Set your shutter speed to 1/50. Set your white balance and iris (exposure) to whatever looks the best.

With all that said, the universal motor and speed control that the Sankyo (and just about all consumer grade projectors) use is not very good at maintaining a consistent speed that is good enough for "real time" film capture. The control is just a variable resistor and you have to carefully watch the capture and adjust as necessary. When watching a projected film, you'd never noticed a +/-5% change in speed, but that will cause a flicker during capture.

Best wishes,

Robert

[Rich Halbert]

OK- total NewB!! I just happened upon my father's 8mm videos and need to find a way to get them digital. Loved this post as I am not afraid of a little creativity!! Loved all of the sample videos and all the explanation of the hardware setups. Couple of questions...

• If money were absolutely no object and you wanted the best transfer possible, what would you do?
• What if the videos have sound, can you still do this direct into a camcorder or does that change things?
• How is the Sankyo 1000 just as a projector to the wall? Is it good for that or just to do these digital transfers?
• I like the 50mm lens option - seems to be the way to go.
• Can you use the ULANZI LED Video Light to project as well or just to do the transfers?

Thanks to everyone to launching me into this new domain!

[Robert Held]

Hi Rich,

Welcome!

• If money were no object, I would have a professional (preferably fairy local) scan my personal 8mm films on a film industry machine such as a Lasergraphics ScanStation. Ideally, I would buy my own, but they're around $175,000, so that's not going to happen!
• For sound, with this type of setup, technically yes you can capture it. For the best quality, you'd need a line level out of the projector into the camera and have it running at the correct speed to get it in one pass. However, we capture to the camcorder at slightly slower or faster speeds to eliminate flicker in the camera and adjust to the correct speed in the video editor. I capture Super 8 sound film via a dedicated projector (Chinon Sound 6100) into my PC and then merge the sound file with the video captured on the Sankyo in video editing software. So, sound film gets run twice.
• The Sankyo 1000 is a great projector, in my opinion. It does not have sound, however, if that matters. If you would like to digitize and project with the same unit, that will require some changeover. At a minimum, changing the lens plus lens holder and light source.
• The LED light is just for transfers; it doesn't get bright enough for projection.

Robert

[Stan Jelavic]

Hi Rich,
For 8mm sound I use Elmo ST180 and RPI HQ camera.
https://youtu.be/ck00AbfB5NE
Or Elmo TRV8.
It is a one pass Video + Sound real time capture.

[Alwyn Adkins]

Stan, your YT is set to Private.

[Rich Halbert]

Stan - I had the same issue - could not access your video

[Rich Halbert]

Hi Rich,

Welcome!

• If money were no object, I would have a professional (preferably fairy local) scan my personal 8mm films on a film industry machine such as a Lasergraphics ScanStation. Ideally, I would buy my own, but they're around $175,000, so that's not going to happen!
• For sound, with this type of setup, technically yes you can capture it. For the best quality, you'd need a line level out of the projector into the camera and have it running at the correct speed to get it in one pass. However, we capture to the camcorder at slightly slower or faster speeds to eliminate flicker in the camera and adjust to the correct speed in the video editor. I capture Super 8 sound film via a dedicated projector (Chinon Sound 6100) into my PC and then merge the sound file with the video captured on the Sankyo in video editing software. So, sound film gets run twice.
• The Sankyo 1000 is a great projector, in my opinion. It does not have sound, however, if that matters. If you would like to digitize and project with the same unit, that will require some changeover. At a minimum, changing the lens plus lens holder and light source.
• The LED light is just for transfers; it doesn't get bright enough for projection.

Robert

Robert: This is super helpful! Unfortunately for you, your answers put more questions in my head!! Here goes:

1. Do you know of any third-party service doing transfers with the Lasergraphics Scanstation?
2. Stan mentioned using the Elmo ST-180 for transfers involving sound. And you mentioned the Chinon Sound 6100. I actually own a Eumig Mark S 802 D but the reverser doesn't work and it has no audio out port. The question is can I modify any of these a la the Sankyo and just have one projector transfer setup or do I need to do both? Sounds like the Sankyo is easily mod-able which must be why so many do it. I am not sure I have any tapes without sound.

Thanks again for all the help! Down another rabbit hole I goooooooooooooooooooooo.................