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Author Topic: Review Wolverine Reels2Digital MovieMaker 8mm film digitizer
Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted August 16, 2019 07:50 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, Stan it's possible ... I have planned for the round holder that you have or those I have designed.

For 3D prints, I'm a little late. the design is finished but my printer has some problems. It's the joys of 3D printing! lol.

There, I ordered a new, stronger 3D filament. So, hopefully, I hope to be able to send you the 3D parts, next week.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted August 16, 2019 01:49 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Kamel. It is no rush. I should be getting the new boards in today. Hopefully it all works out OK including the new connector and the new camera hole location.
Completed the V5 assembly and completed all of the tests except for capstan. Will do that tomorrow.
Here is what it looks like:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8z8ebYgZy35UwSYA7
Here is the test frame. It is still a bit off because it is very touchy and it takes a fraction of a mm to throw it off center.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vQ6PthuAgTCfChSY9
But this should be OK even for HD frame.

[ August 17, 2019, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Stan Jelavic ]

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted August 18, 2019 08:46 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As usual very great work, Stan !...

For the slight shift of the centering of the camera, maybe I will be able to correct with a printing specific support. Thinking.
My filament tests are conclusive.

I found a very good 3D filament (Verbatim Durabio) :
https://www.verbatim-europe.com/uk/blog/verbatim-launches-mitsubishi-chemicals-bio-friendly-durabio-in-3d-filament-form/

This is a new filament that is very precise and very strong. It is heat-resistant and better than nylon and easier to print.
But, It's a little expensive... It's the price of the quality.
I do some tests with...

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

- posted August 18, 2019 10:16 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
anything with the Verbatim logo should be good.
I only use verbatim dvd or cd discs.
Good luck with the printer.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted August 18, 2019 11:17 AM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Kamel. The 3D spacer is a good idea. The alignment is very sensitive and maybe oversize holes could do the trick.

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted August 18, 2019 04:13 PM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stan, it seems to me that in the kit of development of the imagingsource camera there is a possibility of superimposing a cross to help centering.

https://www.theimagingsource.com/products/software/end-user-software/ic-measure/

"User define live overlay", "drawing script Menu" in the ICMeasurement software.
I will look at it as soon as I have a little time... [Smile]
for example on your last test,we can see that the offset of the camera needs to shift left and up forward :

-

-

Horizontality and Verticality are perfect !...
Very good work, Stan ! [Smile]

[ August 19, 2019, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Kamel Ikhlef ]

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted August 19, 2019 08:30 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Looks like a really useful tool Kamel. I used the tool to estimate the correction required.
Drilled oversize mounting holes on the interface board so that I can shift the cam position and then measure the pixel and board displacements. I get 114 pixels per 0.022" as shown in the picture:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ocMYeGDRgzofMcGfA
This is with your camera mount.
Then I measure the amount of shift required to bring the camera to the center horizontally.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ziXvdXVtW1duM96s5
So the correction required is:
145 pixels / (114 pixels / 0.022 inch) = 0,028" = 0.71 mm

But there are other issues:
Your mount has different centering than stock mount. The stock mount just happens to be closer than yours for this particular configuration and requires smaller adjustment.
So, not sure how we meet both requirements at this point.
The other issue is with the vertical adjustment.
The lens is already very close to the panel and centering it more may cause to hit the panel. See the picture.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CvfHrCGSJ9fmQ2LN8
So, I would leave that one alone for now.

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted August 20, 2019 03:45 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Stan,

My calculations are just theoretical. taking the pixel size of the imagingsource cmos (0.0022 x pixels number) my results were an offset of 0.2508mm vertically and 0.319mm Horizontally.

Your calculations are based on reality because you do the tests directly on the telecine, so they are much more reliable.

It's better to trust your results ... But, indeed, it's not obvious at all... [Confused]

[ August 20, 2019, 05:03 AM: Message edited by: Kamel Ikhlef ]

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted August 20, 2019 11:58 AM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually Kamel I use a vernier to measure the board displacement but that can have an error. The difference is only 0.01" (ten thousands of an inch) which is very tiny. A quarter of a millimeter. So I think I will go with your calc.
The mounting holes have some slack so I measured 4 positions i.e board pushed to the right, left, top and bottom. Then used the center of 4 measurements:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tPMVy6XyrhD21s2SA
Based on that the cam mounting holes have to be shifted by:
Vertical: (1310 - 1252) pixels * 0.0022 mm/pixel = 0.1276mm
Horizontal: (919 - 714) pixels * 0.0022 mm/pixel = 0.451 mm

[ August 20, 2019, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Stan Jelavic ]

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted August 21, 2019 02:02 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK Stan, it seems to me very correct! it's high precision watchmaking! [Smile]

Speaking of precision, I get the parts I ordered for my 3D printer tomorrow.

Normally, hopefully I can print up to 0.02 mm resolution. More tests in perspective, but it takes a good direction. [Smile]

[ August 21, 2019, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Kamel Ikhlef ]

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted August 21, 2019 12:27 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tried HD (5mm spacers) and it will work OK. The lens is still within the notch as
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6PjMwRbsqyLGYWZ99

HD mountng hole ajustment:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/aTBvFHs3nLC4t3WX6
center:
960x540
offset:
1096x739
Adjustment:
Vertical: (1096 - 960) pixels * 0.0022 mm/pixel = 0.299 mm
Horizontal: (737 - 540) pixels * 0.0022 mm/pixel = 0.4378mm

The horizontal shift is pretty close to the lo rez.
The vertical is larger but it is not as critical because these is plenty of margin.
This is the lo rez from before to compare against.

Vertical: (1310 - 1252) pixels * 0.0022 mm/pixel = 0.1276mm
Horizontal: (919 - 714) pixels * 0.0022 mm/pixel = 0.451 mm

BTW - the HD focus looks pretty good:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YGwV8eDbnmXg1t6WA

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted August 21, 2019 02:31 PM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stan, I see that you are very perfectionist!...

This is a very good thing because the final result will be better.

As I had already said in the previous pages, your results are better than the scanning professional laboratory that has made some capture tests of S8 movies in HD.

For your last test, you are close to the limit of 80 lines of resolution !

It takes time and a lot of work, but it's worth it! [Smile]

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

- posted August 21, 2019 03:50 PM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am just going to sit back and admire the detailed precision that's going on here, and look forward to the day my letter box goes bang.

The prospect of being able to re scan my Royal Navy cine film again, in quality that it deserves, is so exciting.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted August 21, 2019 09:30 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That is great to hear that we are beating some of the professional machines. I will readjust the holes and order a batch of 5 new boards. Then I will build the 2 for you guys and ship them out.
The project is drawing close to the end. No more fun. Or is fun just starting. Mike hope you share some of your footage at least a few clips.

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted August 22, 2019 04:46 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On my side, I'm waiting for the parts for my 3D printer (normally today). Then I'll have mechanics, electronics and a lot of adjustments to make...

I'm late, but I also hope to send you the printed parts very soon.
At first, it will be the curved pulleys to protect the film from scratches, the toothed pulley and the engine support of the capstan (optional) for testing.

For the front cover, I wait for everything to be functional to better predict the design ( holes, buttons,...).

Stan, 3D printing is very fun, but take a lot of time...
(it can become very exciting and addictive !)

In all cases, you have done an exceptional work and will do many services.. It motivated me a lot and inspired me!

Thank you very much for that... [Smile]

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted August 22, 2019 08:39 AM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Glad you are having fun Kamel. I wanted to get into 3D printing myself but never had time to do it. Had a few projects before and used the 3D printing service for that but doing it myself would have been much more fun.

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted August 22, 2019 09:21 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stan, it's never too late. Just time and a little money too. But,3D printing has become much more popular in recent years.
Prices have dropped a lot.
Currently we can have a very good 3d printer not too expensive. And if we like to tinker, we can improve it ourseves.

This is no longer a problem for someone who loves electronics, mechanics,computers, firmware and software development...
If you like DIY you can find all this in 3D printing.

But it can very quickly become a passion. that's my case. the most complicated is to take the plunge... After, there are so many applications ... for example I make 3D parts for my son who is passionate fish and aquariums, other designs for my daughters, kitchen, bathroom, etc ... Not to mention improve the 3D printer and telecine! lol ... Do it yourself is more rewarding and more fun.
it's infinite...

BTW: I just got the parts for my printer, I'll be able to move forward a little bit. [Smile]

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

- posted August 22, 2019 09:53 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stan Without doubt my youtube channel will be full of the new scans.

I would like to make a video of the mod process once I have all of the parts together.

I can't really do that without your permission and credit to you in the video.

Would that be ok with you?

I'm happy to credit you just by first name or full name, your choice if you are happy for me to do that.

My youtube only has around 200 subscribers but there are many wolverine users out there who might like to see what you have achieved.

I have several thousand feet to re scan of my own, I will probably start a new thread here once the mod is ready to go, and document here too, with links to clips.


my youtube channel

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted August 22, 2019 10:46 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great idea Mike! it can help a lot of people and me first because a video is much more explicit. Of course, if Stan agrees ...

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted August 22, 2019 01:05 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That is a very good idea Mike. Feel free to use any of the materials that I posted here.
Looking forward to seeing you posts with the rebuilt machine.

Ordered the V6 boards.
The change is very tiny -- see the overlay:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VJQ6gqvxt7VMspFk8

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

- posted August 23, 2019 02:36 PM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have posted a 12 minute video that documents the work so far by Stan and Kamel.

It is not 100% accurate in terms of dates and events but it does show the incredible amount of work that has been achieved by Stan and Kamel to date.

If there is anything you don't like about it, do let me know, I am more than happy to take it down and change it.

I have already spotted several spelling mistakes in my captions, oh well.

It will give the trolls something to comment about..too late now.

The Wovlerine scanner sounds good to me!

I wanted to post this so that the work to date can be seen, but as I mention, it's not strictly in sequence in terms of the photos and video clips being in the correct order.

Who put the V in WOVLERINE

[ August 24, 2019, 03:12 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted August 23, 2019 09:54 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pretty awesome Mike. Thank you very much for doing this. Enjoyed the video and the audio track that by some Mike's magic seems to be synchronized to the video. Had a few laughs as well. It is all good fun and also some serious learning.

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018

- posted August 24, 2019 05:12 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Mike, a little relaxation it feels good. We're waiting for the next episode ... [Smile]

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

- posted August 24, 2019 06:48 AM      Profile for Mike Spice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can only apologise for the spelling mistakes.
I am obsessive about spelling too.
That will teach me to try and edit while drinking beer.

At least it documents the amazing work you two are doing.

Must try harder next time, proof read twice

I also forgot to add a music credit, which is remiss of me.
It was Ron Goodwin and music from Monte Carlo or Bust.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019

- posted August 24, 2019 08:09 AM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Perfect selection of music.

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