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Author Topic: Exorbitant prices for super 8
Bob Loehr
Film Handler

Posts: 37
From: Germany
Registered: Feb 2013


 - posted March 14, 2018 05:33 AM      Profile for Bob Loehr     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There a two simple reasons for those inflated prices for used cine prints: GREED and OBSESSION. Greedy collectors offering prints to obsessive collectors. E-bay-algorythm is a big factor in this game: Once a seller is getting away with selling an item for an inflated price this sale price is set as a price suggestion for buy-now option for anyone trying to sell a similar item in the future. A group of cine-film-collectors did push prices up systematically over a long period, with fake bidding etc. They succeded in pushing the prices up to a max as we all see now. As ebay doesn´t charge any fees for putting up items for sale these days there´s no limit to these silly buy-now-prices.

Look at this offer, - and let´s do a case study about the decline of this hobby being partly caused by inflated asking prices:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Star-Trek-von-Marketingfilm-Super-8/142 683603504?hash=item21389b0230:g:r8IAAOSwxVlae~a~

The guy is asking 299 Euros for a 800ft reel of STAR TREK digest without its original boxes, vague description, no screenshots of a possibly fading print, just a nice pic of the original box artwork "for illustration only", to catch your eye.

"Despicable!" as Daffy Duck would state.

All his offers are like this: Minimum to vague info about film condition, mostly "illustrative" pics, silly prices. He´s been notorious for this for more than a decade. And he is a member of this forum!
Usually I skip his stuff on e-bay, he´s mostly offering the same items over and over again for years now. Ony foolishly obsessive collectors buy films from him at these prices, for whatever reason - it´s beyond me!

The same guy happens to buy some prints quite cheap sometimes.
Currently he is offering THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME (6 reels, probably a Niles print) on this very forum for 150 Euros. He purchased this print from a fellow collector on ebay for just 86 Euro 3 days ago.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/142715247334?_trksid=p2471758.m4704

The collector who sold the film this last monday (at a reasonable starting price of 65 Euros) got the same print for less than 50 Euros last year - and he even managed to get a discount from the original seller, since reel 6 had a sound issue, as he mentioned to me a while ago. Needless to say the collector who sold the film at e-bay for 86 Euros was guttered when I told him his print had been offered in this forum for almost twice the amount. The new owner and trusty forum member doesn´t even bother to mention its flaws, he just asks a premium price for it from our good-natured and trusting fraternity of cinephiles.

That´s the way this collecting hobby is crumbling.

[ March 14, 2018, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: Bob Loehr ]

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4817
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 14, 2018 06:26 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Best answer yet Bob.
Its one of the reasons why ebay should bring back a listing fee based on the start price. Unfortunatly ebay itself is also making a fortune. The more a fool will pay the more they make.

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 825
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 14, 2018 07:18 AM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Star Trek print is obviously aimed at the Trekkies memorabilia market although they are not renowned for their generousity or they have more brain cells working than Star Wars fans.

The film itself is usually quite a very good print but you need serious stimulants to stop you falling asleep before the end,

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5836
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted March 14, 2018 07:20 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The very interesting comment from Bob reminds me of the Hunt Brothers cornering the market in silver.
In 1979 the price per troy ounce of silver was $6, by 1980 the price was $49.45, an increase of 724%.
The brothers profited by an estimated $2 billion to $4 billion.
Yes, and almost killed off movie film.

--------------------
Maurice

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Bob Loehr
Film Handler

Posts: 37
From: Germany
Registered: Feb 2013


 - posted March 14, 2018 08:18 AM      Profile for Bob Loehr     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only worthwile thing about a snoozer like STAR TREK - THE MOVIE on Super-8 is the the stunning Marketing artwork on the original boxes. That´s what the Memorabilia market is all about. But the guy asks 299 Euros just for the digest mounted on a 800ft reel, NO BOXES, NO ARTWORK, NO INFO - nada!

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Alexander Prell
Master Film Handler

Posts: 278
From: Germany
Registered: Jun 2011


 - posted March 14, 2018 08:36 AM      Profile for Alexander Prell   Email Alexander Prell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have posted the truth about the sale of "hunchback of Notre Dame" in "sale/wanted". It is up to you to believe it or not. For this reason, I will not help older collectors to find a movie in the future.

Here my comment:
The copy I offer here is not the one Oliver sold some days ago. This one is in original boxes and with full sound, also on the last reel. Yes, I bought this one for an old collector who asked me to bid for him (he is 70 years and not at ebay). His copy is going straight to a re-recording specialist to put it into german.
My one was to expensive for him - 150€ I ask for and 50€ for re-recording. That's the truth! Unbelievable how quickly lies spread through collectors who have too much time!

Mr. Loehr or shall I say Mr. Cinelog? I just phoned the seller of the ebay auction and he finds your behavior slandering others unbelievable. You must have to much time.

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Rich Malmsten
Film Handler

Posts: 41
From: White Bear Lake, MN, USA
Registered: Feb 2017


 - posted March 14, 2018 10:06 AM      Profile for Rich Malmsten   Email Rich Malmsten   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think it's unnecessary to ascribe the high value (= cost) of Super 8 prints to greedy sellers. The value (cost) is what it is. Someday I'm going to sell my house based on the then-current selling price, not what I originally paid for it. I don't think that will make me, or any homeowner, greedy.

That said, it is still unfortunate that today's high value (cost) has priced a lot of collectors out of segments of the market, and I can include myself in that category. (Just like it is unfortunate many people are priced out of some housing markets.)

If only Derann had been able to sell 4,000 prints each of our favorite features back in the heyday rather than just 40 or so, there would be a lot more prints to go around. Unfortunately that wasn't the case.

So I buy what I can afford and keep my eye open for a good bargain. I enjoy the hobby but realize I'm on a burger budget in a steak world.

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4072
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 14, 2018 10:27 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There will not be a "market-guide" towards film, much like comic books, records, toys and the such - The latitude and marginal errors are far too hair-splitting and will never be adhered to - Unhappily, though like it was in the 70's, there will always be the dealer/collector/tradesperson who maintains a greedy-needy attitude - Some guidelines; no original box, knock off 10%, and I'm sorry but to us cardboard enthusiasts, that is book value so to speak (plastic too) - I left EBAY because I cannot afford the escalating prices on a group of films, as instance, where I only need one - What to do? If it starts at $9.99, fine of course, but to end up $178.38 and still I need only one, I just let it all pass me by and hope that particular title and box will trickle through the grapvine to my advantage - That is the reason I thrive for "live" shows, plain talk, clear understanding and to see an object in front of you to discuss. I know I amble-ramble alot, line bottom is if you want something, these days you have to pay a premium I guess, though somewhat negotiable - Like any collector novelties - Honestly, I can see a Super 8 Sound short at $29.95 in the day, and I'll go $39.95 today, but not much more, there is no need to pad the excursion - That is a reason why many turn away from film and go the blu-ray route and other colors to come no doubt - My dime on it (used to be a nickel, well...my time is cost-effective too) Shorty

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10158
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted March 14, 2018 12:01 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I hadn't actually thought of it that way, but there could well be some good truth that these excessively high prices are part of what has been killing the super 8 hobby.

I can see both sides of this issue, and i don't think it's necessarily greed that makes prices go way up. I mean, if i was to sell my very rare STAR WARS L.P.P. Cineavision full feature, I would immediately start it at 1000.00 or more, just because I'm not going to screw myself by following ebay's rediculous suggestions (often stating, start it at 10.00 dollars or some rubbish like that), and stand the chance of somehow the film not being seen and the bloody thing selling for 10.00 dollars!

That previously mentioned "Terminator 2' by me did only seel for a little over 500 dollars. Too expensive for me, but certainly not too outrageous,

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1228
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted March 14, 2018 12:06 PM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike Newell wrote,

The film itself is usually quite a very good print but you need serious stimulants to stop you falling asleep before the end, 

Now that quote made me laugh,thanks Mike,Mark

--------------------
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Elmo 16CL
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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 825
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 14, 2018 01:55 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All true Mark. After the Klingons get wiped out by Voyager a dark night cosy cinema just rest my eyes for a few minutes. Best thing about the mini feature is that it's only about 40% of the feature which take at least 20 minutes to reverse park the Enterprise out of a space dock💤💤💤💤.

It's not as boring as 2001. Did I say that out loud I'm sure I must have offended someone out there 😂😂

Mike

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4817
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 14, 2018 01:58 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi, the only time its greed is where, (in my opinion) an ebay listing starts at the ridiculous end, £50 upward start price on a 400 footer that the seller cant even describe as he hasn't viewed it, "but it looks to be good", (laughable), if a film is listed sensibly, (say £9.99 for a 400 footer) then bids take it to £50-80 then thats up to the buyer. The seller cannot be blamed for that.
However, in my opinion, (aside the very top titles), i think films will drop as collectors become fewer and projector owners no longer able to find repair specialists to keep them going.

Today in work my latest 16mm film turned up, a small crowd of workmates came over and were curious, they all liked it but when i said how much films cost, (low and high end prices) they looked at me as though i was from another planet. Two of them said, "yeah its great but why dont you just project Blu ray". Most of them said lets have a film night but unfortunately for them i no longer have many people around, it's for me and my family & a few long term mates. Most people today dont appreciate what we have, like the young generation who say, "why bother buying vinyl or CD's when you can download and stream.
So, as for exorbitant prices, lets see how long it may continue. [Wink]

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3822
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted March 14, 2018 02:45 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mike the 3 and a half minute 2001 trailer is just about right length wise.

I`ve got it on 16mm and absolutely all I need of that film.

Best Mark.

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 825
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 14, 2018 02:57 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mark

Yes , the trailer looks exciting. Shame about the other 138 minutes. I'm away to watch Fahrenheit 451 hoping to be impressed!

Mike

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4817
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 14, 2018 03:28 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I did a short review of the 2001 trailer on the other channel, have to say thats as long as i want as well. I'm sure its a milestone film but i sat through the whole scope feature once when it was lent to me. It was more exciting watching the reels going around on the projector.
The trailer is fine, [Wink]

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted March 14, 2018 04:39 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LAi7l3iQuE

Well I`m not sure which Kubrick I like best.

Probably FMJ.

But my current favourite film is Night of the Demon 1957.( among many I suppose ).

Be nice to have that on an affordable and decent 16mm print.

I bet David has one somewhere.

Best Mark.

PS the visuals in 2001 for the time are amazing though, but not the narrative etc really.

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Joe Caruso
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 14, 2018 04:48 PM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
maybe I posted all my jibber-jabber on the wrong area

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1228
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted March 14, 2018 05:47 PM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gone with the wind trailer is enough too,it's another film that fetches high prices now but probably one to own as you wouldn't want to screen it very often so most prints will be like new!!!! Personally I wouldn't want a print whatever the cost but the trailer is good,Mark

--------------------
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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5450
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 14, 2018 11:07 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is another issue raised by Bob Loehr that in not part of the original topic of exorbitant price.

Bob Loehr wrote:

quote:
Currently he is offering THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME (6 reels, probably a Niles print) on this very forum for 150 Euros. He purchased this print from a fellow collector on ebay for just 86 Euro 3 days ago.
If we see the link Bob has given above:

- The listing ended on March 11, 2018 at 07:23:09 PM
- Alexander Prell listed it in this forum on March 12, 2018 at 03:01 AM

That is less than one day!

How fast is the German post to deliver the item so Alexander could re-list it here?. I doubt it...so as Alexander says above, this must be a different print.

For me, it is absolutely the seller's right to price the item at whatever he/she wanted. If it is too high, as Doug has mentioned here, it won't sell.

But slandering other people's sale and making a false accusation it is not a nice move.

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4817
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 15, 2018 07:44 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Who's slandering?

Anyone has a right to put up a price? If they know what they are selling, or at least have a knowledge of what they are selling then i agree, but when they clearly have no idea of what they are selling, (descriptions of "i cannot project it as i have no projector to test it, or, this was in a house clearance or loft), then i for one, will call them what i think they are, greedy money makers hoping to pray on people who themselves may not be sure about, if you dont know what you have for sale then at least start the pricing low. There will then be a good chance of selling it, and also, possibly for a much higher amount than than you might expect.

Thomas's main point here does seem to have gone off the boil a bit, like any hobby in the world, there will always be some greed of sorts. The best way to bring prices down is for people to stop paying those very high prices, then sure as night follows day, the prices will have to fall or they will be kept by the seller, [Wink]

Here is another example of an exorbitant price. BUT, if this was re-listed at 14.99 i bet it would fly upto around 40 maybe 50, even that, IMO is too high for a 200 footer but then at least that is up to the people buying rather than someone trying far too hard to make a fast buck, or should i say pound!
https://www.ebay.c o.uk/itm/DALEKS-INVASION-EARTH-SUPER-8-SCOPE-RARE-CINE-FILM-COLOUR-SOUND-for-projector/292472193208?hash=item4418b380b8:g:AT8AAOSwBRVaZ3I2

[ March 15, 2018, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Tom Photiou ]

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1751
From: London, UK
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 - posted March 15, 2018 08:08 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not 200ft but about 100ft I have that trailer and both Walton 200ft extracts on a 400ft spool. 8 minutes to go for it now and no bids.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3822
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted March 15, 2018 08:20 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I hope no one actually paid that for it and there is the old Rare word again, there are loads of copies this trailer about.

Rare, Retro, Vintage, etc etc mumble on and so on.

Its ironic you can actually get far better and fairer deals off the old school dealers these days.

And the still fair collectors.

Best Mark.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

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From: New York, NY, USA
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 - posted March 15, 2018 09:47 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom,

To answer your reply to Winbert of "Who's slandering?", the reference in Winbert's post specifically refers to Bob Loehr's posting about Alexander Prell's sale, the details of which Alexander completely refutes.

Doug

--------------------
I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4817
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 15, 2018 10:42 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for clearing that up Doug. [Wink]

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10158
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted March 15, 2018 11:19 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with you Tom on that earlier post ...

Gee ... were keeping the Meltzer quite busy ... aint we? [Wink]

(Though I so seriously wish prices were lower).

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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