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Author Topic: Is the GS 1200 the Biggest Mistake of my Life?
Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008

- posted July 21, 2012 07:51 PM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have been quietly, comfortably enjoying Super 8 films on Elmo ST1200's for many years, and finally after what I thought was a stroke of luck acquired a GS1200 for free. I have been learning about it and noticed it already has some problems,(the auto thread and possibly the take up) and I have read all of the stories so I am picking up a broken one for a parts machine and then it donned on me? Am I making a mistake here? Am I going to enjoy the difference so much that the potential finickiness is worth it? Will the complexity of it force me to send it off for repairs thereby incurring even more costs? I guess I will see how long this new relationship will last

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

- posted July 21, 2012 08:39 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll be staying tuned to hear how this relationship evolves. The red flag for me was "acquired a GS1200 for FREE." [Roll Eyes] Keep us posted. [Big Grin] [Smile]

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 21, 2012 08:50 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dino, as you are more silent films collector, I don't see the needs to have GS. Your current ST is more than enough. Even I think you need sort of that German projector which is very quiet in terms of the machine noise.

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Winbert

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 21, 2012 09:08 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've always been just a little wary of the GS, but in the same way I'm wary of Ferraris: spectacular performance, along with complexity and the potential for trouble that comes with it.

-the difference is I mayyy own a GS some day!

Then again, the ethusiasm that people have for them probably means if I ever did get one, the ST-1200HD might not seem quite the same anymore!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008

- posted July 22, 2012 12:09 AM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert while I agree I don't really have the needs for a stereo projector (I have a Chinon 1200 that I thought I was finally going to get to use with the one new release I purchased the Super 8 trailer, then it turned out to not be stereo)..I do like to watch a nice big image so I am always looking for a little more light output, which the GS can do with its brighter lamp, and I believe I can switch the shutter that supposedly increases the light even more.

and Steve, the enthusiasm of others is exactly what has prompted me to investigate, .... we shall see.

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Wayne Tuell
Master Film Handler

Posts: 488
From: Minden, NV
Registered: Jul 2009

- posted July 22, 2012 12:19 AM      Profile for Wayne Tuell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dino, I thought by now you would have the theater projector with 4K XENON lamp retro fitted with S8mm sprockets & gate along with the digital dolby AND be THX certified all in your den. [Cool]

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www.16mmDrive-InFilms.com

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Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011

- posted July 22, 2012 12:26 AM      Profile for Akshay Nanjangud   Email Akshay Nanjangud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ha ha ha ... Wayne, I liked that. Dino does have some cool stuff.

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 22, 2012 12:46 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A well looked after GS1200 is a dream machine. Very bright light output, great sound, ability to re-record incredible Stereo Recordings. I think its one of the best hands down.
But...a neglected GS1200 can be a little finicky depending on how bad it was neglected. I have heard that some GS1200 machines were used in Adult Theatres and ran all day long till they died. I have been VERY lucky and all the machines I have had in the past had very minimal problems.

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

- posted July 22, 2012 03:43 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dino
Best of luck, as they can be a real pain in the butt when they play up [Smile] Most are fitted with EJL 200watt lamp, as the proper ESC is hard to get, also it was an expensive lamp in its day with a short life. The EJL will give you less light than the ST1200 with its 150 watt lamp, thats because of the type of filament in the EJL [Frown]

Anyway hope all goes well, and with this forum you are certainly in the right place to read all the "ups and downs" of owning a GS1200.

Graham. [Smile]

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Alex Fox
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 179
From: Vineland Ontario Canada
Registered: Jul 2003

- posted July 22, 2012 08:25 AM      Profile for Alex Fox   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Like Alan says the GS has to be maintained, I have had two of them since they were put on the market and have had great service from them ,other than having to replace the micro switchs. Like a motor car if you don't take it in for service on a regular schedule then you can expect to sitting at the side of the road one day. My two pennies worth, Alex.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

- posted July 22, 2012 12:47 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
The fault being they spent more time in the repair shop than
being actually used, but congratulations on your good fortune
Dino.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 22, 2012 01:46 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Base on my experience with 2 GS1200'S , here IMO are the pros and cons of the GS1200:

PROS:
1200FT Capacity
200watt lighting
sync-pulse capability
Piano key controls (see also below)
Optical playback capability
Long life magnetic heads
Superb quality construction - Built like a 16mm machine

CONS:
Can sometimes scratch film
Reliability issues associated with the complex switching circuitry required for piano key controls (switches, solenoids,relays)
Evidence of susceptibility to sound WOW with some prints due to small diameter sound capstan and pressure roller and variation in take-up torque.
Amplifier reliability issues.
Very heavy

There are other pros and cons but I think the ones listed are the major ones.

Now lests list the pros and cons of another top level machine, say the Eumig 938 Stereo

PROS:
800 FT CAPACITY
150 WATT LIGHTING
Extremely reliable
Does not scratch film
Superb sound quality with zero WOW
Light weight

Cons:
Magnetic head wear can be an issue with extensive use.

Which one would you pick?

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

- posted July 22, 2012 04:29 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Is the question rhetorical,but I'll answer it,a choice between
Japanese & German,I've got to go with Eumig,just on their
superb reputation on reliability and no scratch machines.
The Elmo GS is a quality projector,but comes with a few problems
one of them serious,film care.If the damn thing had been a
manual thread projector I could actually love it,but it needs a lot
of alterations before precious film can pass unharmed through it.
With a little more put into actual care of film and less on the
recording side,this could have been the classic projector,the
Japanese fumbled the ball with those horrible plastic tracks.
A missed opportunity.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 23, 2012 01:15 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Which one would you pick?
The Sankyo Stereo 800 every time! [Wink]

Mike [Cool]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005

- posted July 23, 2012 01:37 AM      Profile for Joe Balitzki   Email Joe Balitzki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The periodic issues with the GS1200 have stopped me from taking the plunge. You have to replace certain parts which are difficult to obtain now to avoid scratching. And due to its complexity, repairs become necessary sooner or later. More trouble than its worth unless you have $ to throw away or a lot of patience. I spoke to a repairman (not Leon Norris) last year on the phone who works on many brands. If a part isn't available, he fabricates it. He said that the GS1200s are over engineered and unnecessarily complex which leads to the frequent breakdowns. I agree partly because its predecessors are workhorses. So Elmo should have known better than to design such a jumble of features onto the same body as the ST 1200s.

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Movie Lovers Do It in the Dark

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 23, 2012 10:28 AM      Profile for Gary Crawford     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I use my GS only for big screen showings at the library..outside at the church..etc.... fitted with a f1.0 lens...two blade shutter....and , very important, the fuji ESC lamp...which Steve Osborne of the the Reel Image and others say gives 20% more light because it focuses that filament on the smaller super 8 frame. And they are right...the ejl...is for 16mm machines. I just changed out the ejl for the fuji....(the ejl was a spare I had to put in for an emergency)..and the difference is remarkable. But, Dino..you show so many silent films....so if you put a two blade shutter in that machine...and run it at 18fps....the flicker is very noticeable.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 23, 2012 10:57 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have three GS1200's and don't experience all the purported problems listed on here. I suggest all you chaps succeeded in purchasing knackered machines.

One I did purchase about 10 years ago was clapped out owing to it being a Widescreen Centre Gemini 300 converted machine. It was extremely bright but needed a major overhaul. I used it until it finally died and then it went to Bill Parsons who rebuilt it into the HTI machine used at the BFCC's ever since. I've not seen a better Super 8 image and probably not heard better Super 8 sound reproduction.

The truth is the only machine that can compare with a GS1200 is from the Fumeo stable. Alan Rik can update us on that.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

- posted July 23, 2012 10:58 AM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dino

Now for my 2 cents. If you decided to get divorced from your GS1200 I would like permanent custody of it with no visitation rights. I don't care about any of the querks it has. I just WANT ONE! So if you decide to part with it please let me know. If I don't have the money to buy it I will re-mortgage my house, sell my car, or consider a life of crime to buy it. [Confused]

PatD

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 23, 2012 11:34 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
So if you decide to part with it please let me know. If I don't have the money to buy it I will re-mortgage my house, sell my car, or consider a life of crime to buy it.
Don't worry Pat, after watching Pay it Forrward, I trust Dino will send the projector to you for ....

quote:
and finally after what I thought was a stroke of luck acquired a GS1200 for free
... [Big Grin]

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Winbert

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

- posted July 23, 2012 12:22 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
John,we're not imagining the damage these machines have done,
and it isn't just the GS but the STs all have the same problem.
I don't know if you are old enough to remember "Super 8 Collector" from the 70s,but the ST1200 had just appeared and
got a resounding write up, which led to me buying one (new)
shorlty after it was reported in the mag that people were experiencing scratched prints,now we weren't all imagining this
problem.Mr van Someren then advised us all to write letters to
Elmo via him and they would be forwarded to them. They admitted that the plastic parts were under par and would make
newer parts from a harder wearing material,which they did,
but the problems persisted.Eventually,people did there own
alterations and either cut away the tracking or like myself, fitted rollers to alleviate wear on the film surface.The GS was also
fraught with problem parts as Keith Wilton in his early magazine
S8FR #21 proved,together with diagrams on where to fit additional rollers.These were new projectors and collectors were
having to do the job of the designer.This doesn't happen in 16mm.I have two plastic tubs containing used parts from Elmo
projectors that I have replaced over the years,and that was for
two new machines,one a GS, the other an ST1200,the GS spent
it's life in a box in transit from A-B.The posts on this Forum speak for themselves.

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

- posted July 23, 2012 01:36 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know the GS guide where the film goes in can be replaced with a (very expensive) metal one from Germany which should last longer but no doubt the additional rollers are best. Does anyone know if Keith Wilton - or anyone - still offers this service?

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Adrian Winchester

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

- posted July 23, 2012 01:51 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Adrian,Dave Locke used to fit them,I have address,if he still
lives there that is: 13a Bulagak Rd.,Thornton Heath,Surrey.
You were saying that it's possible to get a part in metal for the
GS,but what about the other parts like the head presser,that
eventually wears,and the lower channel & sprocket,also the
upper sprocket guide,which is where I fitted two extra rollers
and also on the lower sprocket guide.I do have a phone number but it must be long changed by now :tel 653 0133,but directory enquiries should sort that one.

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Vincent Zabbia
Master Film Handler

Posts: 372
From: Montrose, NY
Registered: Feb 2011

- posted July 23, 2012 04:27 PM      Profile for Vincent Zabbia   Author's Homepage   Email Vincent Zabbia   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is funny stuff...Pat, looks like you never owned a GS 1200? I've owned one and sold it many years ago. I prefer the ST 1200D or the ST 1200HD (these do scratch films after awhile). I've also owned most of the Eumigs, and they are easy on films, but don't like the commitment the film makes once loaded. The Sankyo 800 Stereo has very flimsy sprockets, and without the 1.0 lens, the image is too dark...As for the Fumeo (Too much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$) Keep it simple and you will have less stress!

[ July 23, 2012, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Vincent Zabbia ]

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Vincent Zabbia

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

- posted July 23, 2012 04:43 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Vincent,there is sound philosophy in those wise words,and that
is very true about not being able to remove film in the later Eumigs,which is why I favour manual loading.

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Vincent Zabbia
Master Film Handler

Posts: 372
From: Montrose, NY
Registered: Feb 2011

- posted July 23, 2012 05:44 PM      Profile for Vincent Zabbia   Author's Homepage   Email Vincent Zabbia   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hugh, you are the Jedi Master...Beware of Buying a GS 1200 on ebay. Might get a lemon. Stick with buyers you know...The only problem I've run into when buying the ST 1200D/HD are the melted belts...Which is a problem I can live with...You can buy three Elmo Ds or HDs for the price of one GS. Let me make one thing clear though...The GS 1200 is a great projector as long as you treat it with tender loving care...They can be testy like an old girlfriend...

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Vincent Zabbia

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