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Topic: Scrapping Faded Prints
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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004
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posted March 13, 2018 04:34 AM
Graham, I am sincerely sitting here applauding you for doing this so publicly - I have done the same myself many times as the Eastman (red and pink and almost clear film in some cases) and 60's / 70's Fuji (purple and rot in the emulsion) have come my way or gone off in my collection. Super 8, 16mm and 35mm, all chopped and dumped due to fade.
However, as I'm sure you will see as the replies to this thread come in, prepare yourself for a backlash as you are officially now a 'real film murderer' - so many collectors out there will hate the thought of even one frame of film being trashed let alone a whole reel or feature.
It would be different if it was a lost film, or one that had scenes in it no longer available elsewhere, as with some 35mm Nitrate my friends at Kaleidoscope took to Pathe and the BFI for me.
Thankfully these faded beyond watchable films are now out of the re-selling loop forever, making it impossible for any future owner to describe them as 'excellent condition' on one line of the description, then adding 'with colour fade' on the other, as often is the case.
Kevin
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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted March 13, 2018 08:49 AM
Thank you Simon, exactly my thoughts. Kevin, thank you for your reply to my post. The statement about 'this is not what the director intended us to see' was made in a former post about binning red prints, and I think the author was David Hardy. I know a lot of directors were not happy about Pan and Scan, hence my mentioning it. Would someone who got a mention for the best use of colour be happy that collectors had B&W prints.
Here is a screenshot of a film I bought last year' The Siege of the Saxons', I got this from a US seller, who fully described it, and supplied screenshots. Coming from the US I also had extra postage and import tax, but I am very pleased to own it; something that would have been denied if everyone was of the same mind to bin prints. Even David Hardy who formerly agreed with their destruction is now talking of selling them on Ebay. There are some chancers on Ebay, but I don't think it's in the proportions that we are led to believe on here. I don't think some of the sellers here are that honest; how often do you see anyone mention jump cuts, clipped dialogue, and emulsion scratches in their description. Another popular pastime among Super 8 collectors is re-recording soundtracks. I have yet to see a film advertised as 'The professionally recorded soundtrack has been re-recorded by an amateur'.
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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004
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posted March 13, 2018 09:14 AM
Simon - you have taken two very extreme cases there where you know the difference is obvious - of course dust the wine bottle down and the contents are hopefully perfect and still drinkable (not always the case I can assure you) and property of any type can be refurbished, even Graded listed property with supervision.
Our hobby unfortunately does not have these benefits - faded to pink or beet red film is just that, faded, worn out, it's had it - we throw away worn out clothing, too expensive to repair consumer electronics, piles of read newspapers and magazines, warped scratched unplayable records, etc. why should cine films be any different?
Robert - sincerely I honestly don't mean to offend anyone with my posts and if you are pleased with a film whatever the colour fade I am happy for you, but for me I can no longer enjoy these films unless all or nearly all the colour range is still there.
Kevin.
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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted March 13, 2018 09:23 AM
Actually Kevin, 1 of my red prints is immaculate, it's just the colour change, it's not worn out. What I can't understand, and I would be grateful if you could explain it to me; is that knowing there are people who would like to own these prints, why do you deny them that pleasure. I have lots of old records, some single sided going back to 1907; they contain a lot of hiss, but still playable. It may not be for you, but it's Ok for someone else. It just reminds me of that fable of the dog in the manger , 'I don't want it and no one else is having it'. Once you have sold a print and am satisfied that you got your asking price, are you really concerned what the buyer does with it after, keep it or re-sell it?
Look forward to seeing the destruction video on Vimeo.
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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004
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posted March 13, 2018 10:03 AM
Hello Robert
The 'I don't want it so no-one else can have it' quote is the polar opposite of my character as anyone who knows me will testify.
I too had lots of records - thousands at one point as I was a long time record collector and part time DJ in the 80's to 90's - playing rock n roll, rNb rockabilly and blues - all sold now as I found the format too inconvenient to enjoy with our then young children around and moved to CD instead - however, those records were all sold on or given to friends - many were one side London Records demos, some blues acetates etc. but not unplayable rubbish or I would again have headed to the landfill with them.
This is where all of us will differ in our opinions - at what point does something (anything) become no longer worth keeping? And then of course who would like it? Shall I spend years trying to find a willing recipient? You mentioned David Hardy I believe he tried for months to pass on free films and equipment to no avail when he was moving house. Then the minute he confirms them as dumped someone complains!
I think I have one faded 16mm feature left, a Hammer Frankenstein feature I bought last year fully aware from the seller description it was faded as I wanted to try and project it as true black and white using a combination of filters illuminated by my Eiki 500w xenon but this proved impossible to achieve satisfactorily.
If you would like it for free send me your address by PM and I will be pleased to give it to you. I can tell from your posts you genuinely would enjoy the film and not see it just as a future profitable resale on Ebay or elsewhere.
The remaining faded beyond watchable prints (to me) from my collection have already gone - I've kept my IB Tech, Agfa and Eastman LPP prints, some on Kodak SP and of course Kodachrome too. I don't see it as depriving anyone of anything though - just creating space as needed, enabling the reuse and possible sale of the now empty reels and cans.
Kevin
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted March 13, 2018 11:23 AM
It all depends on the film ...
I once has a faded super 8 feature of "Emporer of the North" (Lee marvin classic from the 70's), it wasn't entirely beet red, but it has certainly lost some of it's color, about a 6 out of 10 ...
But i really wish i had kept it as it is the only print of that feature that I've ever seen come up and these days, i have some pretty good filters that would have made the print look a good deal better, not perfect, but better.
--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Graham Ritchie
Film God
Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted March 13, 2018 12:55 PM
Kevin
Thanks ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Folks... over the years of collecting films I have heard many times of people who were once interested into getting into this hobby, only to be disappointed when told "films are in good condition" only to find they are badly faded and unable to watch or show to there friends, so the result is, after feeling conned and lets face it, there have been by some crooks out there that profess to be films collectors but are only interested in making "MONEY" and as long as money is rolling in, dont give a hoot for the poor sucker they ripped off....they leave.
Sure not everyone is a crook, but if you want this hobby to have any future, then unless the print is "rare" as Kevin stated and worth keeping, then forget about the money... forget OH! someone might want it so give it away excuse...well that's rubbish, honestly folks, why would anyone want to watch a badly faded print of "Star Wars" ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I dont take any pleasure dumping badly faded films but the bottom line is they are junk, and need to be taken out of circulation to avoid landing up on e-bay, getting sold for money to some poor sucker who has just joined this hobby.
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