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Topic: Film vs Digital ... Lets put this one to bed.
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Joe Caruso
Film God
Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted August 20, 2016 08:04 AM
This is always a tough topic to reply on - Let's remember there is the Jeffrey Selznick School for Film Preservation in Rochester NY - Film, not Analog - I like to "see" film, frame-by-frame, can't do that with a digital hangup - It is simply a matter of preference - Being a kid from the 60's, all we had was the television and the movies - We bought films and played with them - Todays so-called "films" are fascinating, however there is the pleasure in hearing a projector whurr along as it projects a sharp b&w noir image - I'm sorry, I understand the images can be cleaned up and look "as new", but I prefer them older, a bit used and charmingly attractive - We started with film, and we'll end with it, no matter the technology because everything traces back to its origin - Even a decent copy analog to analog doesn't cut it - It must be from the source; celluloid - You will never see this with records, comic books, toys or paintings - Restored, yes, but virtually left intact - But I digress - If you like the new look of motion pictures, so be it and if some are of the other presuasion, even better - Personally, I could never see "The 1st Annual Digital Film Collector Show", replete with tables of unitarian plastic cases and no more original artwork boxes - I'm sorry again, it was a glorious time and will always be - Nowadays, anything that is created is just a follow-through - Shorty
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 20, 2016 12:32 PM
Good points Joe ...
I had a little fun with my post yesterday, but in truth, I see no compariosn between the two. Digital is disposable, where film is something well worth the time to search for, and the great pleasure of finding that treasured print is well worth the wait ...
even if it takes years in the waiting ( ala "Grizzly Adams" )
For instance ...
I, like any other number of film collectors, also buy DVD's (rarely nowadays) and Bluray (almost as rarely), but I diligently search for film and when I find that print, YAY!!
I just won, for instance, a film print of an episode of "The Mighty hero's", Ralph bakshi's firth venture into directing aniamted cartoons, while he was still with Terrytoons, (mid 1960's).
I have seen many prints of these films and usually, they have been faded to various degrees. I just found a print that has pristine color (eager to find out which stock!), and I can hardly wait to see it. I just never have that same feel when buying something on DVD, whether the film is restored or not.
... but I also have to admit that part of this whole collecting thing IS nolstalgia. maybe it's because i like to think that I'm like these old films i collect. They are ready to throw away and are worth archiving, hopefully I'll be worth archiving someday.
One thing is very true however ...
With nearly anything, the quality to modern materials is not better, it's cheaper and in most cases, more affordable, but it's not better. Things are made to be good for today and tossed aside tomorrow, and digital falls into that category. Digital was never mneant to be something to be archived. It's convenient, nothing more.
-------------------- "All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted August 20, 2016 08:04 PM
I think a good argument can be made that the Derann Disney prints have an exquisite beauty that is absent from digital versions of the same material. Also, there is something about watching vintage films, such as Laurel and Hardy's, on a film projector, it just adds something indefinable. Digital projection in the home is now as good as anything you will see in a digital cinema, which is great for the home showman. For me, the ability to also be able to show reel celluloid just adds to the interest and enjoyment of this whole home cinema hobby.
-------------------- The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection, Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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Tom Spielman
Master Film Handler
Posts: 339
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2016
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posted August 20, 2016 10:19 PM
Graham, I agree that the terms analog and digital get muddled. It seems that to some people analog refers to anything that's not digital. However, depending on the context some things share both analog and digital elements, while others are really neither.
It probably goes back to "digital" clocks. Traditional clocks where then branded as "analog". The term "digital" in those days just meant that the display used digits rather than hands. The first digital clocks were mechanical gadgets, not computerized.
Working in the computer world, I probably get overly pedantic about the terms, but I find it interesting when people say things like digital is not archive-able. My favorite picture of all time was taken over 15 years ago on a low resolution digital camera. It's of my then 2 year old son wearing a blue, red, and green snow suit, sitting on a pure white snow bank, his pink dimpled cheeks framed by a perfectly blue sky.
There were no SD cards then, you hooked the camera up to a computer and copied the pictures. They were erased off the camera, and then it was ready to go again.
That camera is long gone, and so is the computer the picture was originally copied to. The picture has probably be moved to 3 or 4 other computers since. It's also on a backup drive, and stored in a cloud service. So, yes, the different mediums that image was stored on had short lives compared to film. Yet the picture (the important part) lives on, just as good as the day it was taken.
I have some films that are 50 years old. They're kept in a refrigerator in the basement for two reasons. The 1st is that the cool temps help maintain the film, the 2nd is that stuff in a fridge is more likely to survive a fire.
The point is that with either film or digital, care has to be taken if you want the images to survive.
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted August 21, 2016 10:01 AM
David, there certainly wasn't any snobbery attachment meant by describing all of the challenges we try to face and overcome as film collectors.
I was simply meaning that for collectors such as myself, the final outcome to purchasing a new film (new to me of course, I mean), is the actual viewing of it.
What turns film collecting into an actual hobby for me are the endless hours spent recreating original boxes and artwork or when placed on bigger reels, making new designs based very much on the originals. Or other tasks like bringing the recordings into the realms of 21st Century listenable standards. This is not to mention the countless hours spent splicing in New leaders, adding on trailers, cleaning and checking prints. The list is endless and I haven't even begun to mention the dedicated hours restoring or maintaining the machines themselves.
These are the attributes I was aspiring to when I said, to my of thinking, only one offers me a hobby.
Honestly, if i were to retire tomorrow, there still wouldn't be enough hours in a day for me to complete everything I like to do involving the hobby!
All of these aspects of film collecting bring me an enormous amount of exciting challenges at times, but I really love every part of all that I involve myself in.
-------------------- "C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted August 21, 2016 11:18 AM
Well said Andrew, you summed up exactly how I feel about the film hobby. But to David's point, some of the packaging you get with BluRay and DVD is beautiful, such as the presentation sets and blu ray digi books, and collecting these can be very satisfying. As far as picture quality is concerned, home digital projection generally looks better than 8mm and 16mm film, but not always. Anyway, there is no way that I would want to go back 10 years and be without digital projection.
-------------------- The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection, Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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