8mm Forum


  
my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» 8mm Forum   » General Yak   » Film vs Digital ... Lets put this one to bed. (Page 3)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5 
 
Author Topic: Film vs Digital ... Lets put this one to bed.
Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 21, 2016 05:09 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
It's about the magic of the cinema for film and traditional cinema lovers David. Why not enjoy it in the traditional way it was created for? [Big Grin] [Wink]

Shaky films generally point to some problem on the machines themselves I've found.
On the odd occasion, it can be due to slitting, perforation,or printing faults, but many I've convinced myself are faulty look different again on a stable machine and when well lubricated I've noticed.

I had a similar experience recently with an acetate b/w print.
Shaky on one machine, steady as a rock on another after applying FG.

I don't believe this print on 8 has any common known fault of a particularly shaky image David from the guys I know who have this feature.

At the end of the day David, if the magic has gone for you, I fully understand your preference to screen everything digitally nowadays. It's certainly a whole lot less hassle if that is how you now view film projection these days. [Smile] [Smile]

Maybe I will feel similar one day,..you never know??

In fact thinking about it, I already have on two occasions previously. Once at the end of the first era of interest and secondly, about 2 months after getting back into it all!

Thankfully that was some time ago now and as said, I'm having a good time of it all of late, fingers and all else very firmly crossed! [Roll Eyes] [Eek!]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted August 21, 2016 05:28 PM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew the print is not that shaky due to any projection faults.
In fact I have two 8mm prints.
One on B/W stock and the other on colour stock.
There is a slight unsteadiness from the master used.
In fact these copies were never that great in terms of sharpness
and look a bit flat.
The sound also has some "motor-boating" noise on reel one transferred from the master used.
My DVD has no such faults.
I am stress free when watching via Digital Projection.

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 21, 2016 05:30 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Which is worse David, the colour or b/w print David?

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted August 21, 2016 05:35 PM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Black and White suffers from those oxide spots on the image.
I remember speaking to Ged at Derann about this and he informed me that was one reason they got the labs to print it on colour stock. It has a slight sepia tone to it.

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 21, 2016 05:38 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
But is the b/w one more shaky than the colour one David?

(Vertical movement)

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted August 21, 2016 05:48 PM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No both the same if my memory is correct.
I will need to dig them out soon to compare when time allows.
They are both well lubed.

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 21, 2016 05:55 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I look forward to seeing the outcome David thanks. [Wink]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

David Michael Leugers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Fairfield, OH, USA
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted August 21, 2016 11:03 PM      Profile for David Michael Leugers   Email David Michael Leugers   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think we are talking about two things. Film projection in a theater and the hobby of projecting film versus digital projection. Watching TV (even projected TV) is not a hobby. Certainly a pastime and enjoyable but lacks the rewards those who enjoy the hobby of film projection seek. The statements always made about the flaws of film projection in the theater are over stated. I still sorely miss real film projection in the theaters. To me the experience of film provided benefits that easily outweighed any minor flaws.

--------------------
Live Free or Die

 |  IP: Logged

Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 22, 2016 12:16 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now I can understand why you recently see collecting films as hoarding activities as your topic below:

Collector or Hoarder

Although at the first time, I found we are at the same stage, now I can see we are totally different.

You are in the phase of leaving the hobby because you are too tired with this hobby and cannot longer cope with it.

Nothing will change us from this hobby.

This is a hobby. If you like fishing as a hobby, you prepare the rod and baits, go to creek and river. Hire a boat. It cost you a lot of money.

If you like eating fish, go to supermarket, buy a kilo and fry it. Or the easiest way, go to fish and chips store.... [Big Grin]

A hobby cannot be described as your way. The more money we spend, the more enjoyment we got. We use hobby as the way to entertain ourselves no matter how much money we spend and what is the result (big fish, small fish, old broken shoes...whatever...) or in other words, we can buy a $5 DVD and got a copy of Tom & Jerry compilations in digital and 5.1 stereo sound or spend $25 for a super 8mm copy of Tom & Jerry.

I am happier with the later.

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

 |  IP: Logged

David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted August 22, 2016 03:10 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert / David we are getting slightly off topic here regarding
the Film vs Digital topic.
We are now in the realm of definition of what a hobby is.

Collecting things such as DVDs/ BLU-RAY discs and their projection can still be regarded as a hobby.
A hobby does not have to involve a lot of complex actions or
expense for it to be regarded as such.
That's why things like collecting Stamps / Beermats / Comics /
Film Posters / Match boxes / Birdwatching etc etc etc are hobbies.

HOBBY ... "A favourite leisure-time activity or occupation."
OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY.

FILM COLLECTING is no different as a hobby as its merely a pastime or should be.

Winbert I still collect films but not as much as I used to
but I have not left the hobby at all.
I just don't give it as much time as I used to because I don't have the time and cant be bothered with it all the time or the expense.
I have other hobbies I actively pass time with such as Model Railways , Collecting Vinyl LP records and 78rpm records and Comic and Old Magazines.

Meantime Digital Projection is now becoming my primary means
of watching movies.
Film projection is secondary but still one of my hobbies.


[Wink] [Wink] [Wink]

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

 |  IP: Logged

Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 22, 2016 03:17 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, you were super right when quoting OXFORD ENGLISH DICTIONARY for the terms of hobby.

The only thing is this forum is about film collecting hobby.

There is nothing wrong with DVD collecting hobby, or even just debating hobby, both have their respective forums... [Wink]

--------------------
Winbert

 |  IP: Logged

David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted August 22, 2016 03:25 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert I am fully aware that this forum is about film otherwise
I would not be here. Thanks for reminding me. hahahaha !!!

However we are on the General Yak threads and that allows for
non-film topics such as Video etc.
[Smile] [Smile] [Smile] [Wink]

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

 |  IP: Logged

Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 22, 2016 04:19 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Winbert I am fully aware that this forum is about film
Good to know you were aware.

Just a bit of suggestion, if you were in a VW buggy forum, don't ask why not riding a BMW as it is nicer and more comfy ...although you post it in General yak....hahahaha... [Big Grin]

--------------------
Winbert

 |  IP: Logged

Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted August 22, 2016 04:32 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fair enough really chaps, 'whatever floats your boat' as a previous poster said. Subject put to bed - no winners, no losers, no humans or animals harmed in the (thus far) friendly debate.

David, from your own statements if a spare time activity upsets you as much as film handling now appears to we can provide the perfect solution - simply advertise your reels of film and cine equipment with prices on these forums and you will then be able to use the proceeds to purchase as many digital media movies as you should desire.

Kevin

 |  IP: Logged

Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted August 22, 2016 05:48 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Digital and film I feel both have a place. I do feel though that there was for many years unfair criticism towards the 35mm film format itself in the push to go digital. People would say Oh they get scratched and so on. All I can add is that for the years I worked as a projectionist I never scratched a film. With careful threading, plus numerous checks before and after starting the projector, plus good maintenance, cleaning, having a projectionist to monitor sound levels and to keep an eye on the focus was what it was all about. Films like eg "King Kong", "Harry Potter", "Lord of the Rings" looked and sounded great right through the many sessions that those prints ran.

The 35mm format itself was fine, but getting good projectionist that take care and pride in what they were doing with it were not that easy to find..... and that's the crunch.

Last week I bought a Blu-ray, the week before more Super8 and 16mm film which might not be as good as the digital stuff, but for me its more fun. [Smile]

By the way this is a good documentary and well worth watching on DVD [Wink] ...
 -

 |  IP: Logged

Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted August 22, 2016 05:57 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Analogue - Analogous or parallel word or thing. Computer that uses voltage/weight/length to represent numbers.
Analogous - Similar, parallel.

So so both film and digital CINEMA (not just digital; as anything can be digitised nowadays) are analogues (similar to, but not the same as) the original action that took place.

Fun playing with words and definitions, isn't it? :-)

 |  IP: Logged

David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted August 22, 2016 09:47 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Brian I fully agree with you.
I have been telling people that for years.
Even digital images or sound comes out as analogue or we would
not be able to see or hear it.
That's why there are D/A convertors and filters built in to
all digital equipment.

Graham that was the main problem towards the end of the 35mm film
era. There were really "numptie" projectionists employed in
the business at that time. No proper intensive training given
and it showed. Not their fault though but the Cinema owners.
It took me 3 and half years apprenticeship to qualify for my
Union " PROJECTIONIST CERTIFICATE " and only a couple of days to
gain my " DIGITAL CERTIFICATE ".
I am glad to be out of the industry now.
I have that DVD and it is very good indeed.

Kevin I had considered selling more of my films but I really cant
be bothered with that at the moment.
I did offer some for free sometime ago but not on this forum.
It was a lot of 35mm Features and shorts but no one was willing to come and pick them up from me so I simply binned the lot over
a couple of weeks.
They are now somewhere in a landfill site along with my Westar
35mm Projector.
Oh well that's life. [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

 |  IP: Logged

Tom Spielman
Master Film Handler

Posts: 339
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2016


 - posted August 22, 2016 10:53 AM      Profile for Tom Spielman   Email Tom Spielman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For me the question of whether film is better or not can't be debated in any objective way because most (not all) of the advantages that people attribute to film are subjective and intangible. I will say that as a person who's life is very much rooted in the digital world, I'm willing to accept that film really does have some unquantifiable benefits. The problem is that some people appreciate those benefits, while others don't.

What is less subjective is that there are people who clearly enjoy collecting, viewing, and shooting film. Not only that, there are those that enjoy tinkering with the machinery involved. I'm one of them, but in two or five years time that may no longer be true. My hobbies tend to change over time. I like the challenge of fixing something old and learning in the process, but I don't want to do the same things over and over again.

If the hobby is no longer fulfilling, then there is no crime in moving on to something else or taking a break from it and coming back. Hobbies are meant to be enjoyed, and if collecting and viewing digital productions brings you more enjoyment, then that is what you should do.

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 22, 2016 11:14 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
the subject is as endless as a reel of...film, or digital film - The choice is yours - Cheers, Shorty

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 22, 2016 12:31 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I suggest that we should all be thankful and appreciative of the fact that we have the luxury of both of these fantastic mediums.
Pretty soon optical discs may cease to exist, and access to all movies will be restricted to inferior internet streaming. There will be no more beautiful DVD and Blu Ray collectors editions to collect, and the joy will be gone from digital projection using a medium that you actually own.
Today will then be seen as the golden age of home digital movie collecting.
Enjoy it while you can.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

 |  IP: Logged

Tom Spielman
Master Film Handler

Posts: 339
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2016


 - posted August 22, 2016 12:34 PM      Profile for Tom Spielman   Email Tom Spielman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Enjoy it while you can..."

Always good advice Paul. Once something is gone wishing it will come back is usually fruitless.

 |  IP: Logged

Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 22, 2016 01:07 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
 -

 |  IP: Logged

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted August 22, 2016 01:18 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I love film, although it's been a while since I've even set up a projector, for various reasons.

I also love classic film and if it wasn't for DVD/Blu I would never own copies of many of the movies I own from the 20's and 30's.Given the choice, I would own all of the 100's of titles I have from that era on 16mm...but, it ain't ever going to happen.

Both are just fine, in my book. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

 |  IP: Logged

Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008


 - posted August 22, 2016 04:47 PM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only thing I can add at this point is please don't bin good condition films or equipment. Everything has a price on eBay. Someone else can always 'be bothered' even if you can't.

I have time and the space for various formats and collections but I don't have a wife. I wonder how much of this kind of debate is in fact prompted by having to justify space and expenditure to other members of a household?

I have had projectors and hi-fi and books and tapes and TVs ever since I was a child. I was quite early into computers too. Not a hobby or pastime for me, more like a 'lifestyle choice.'

--------------------
VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 22, 2016 04:51 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Living alone would certainly simplify things on both counts of space and expenditure Steven! [Big Grin] [Wink]

It's not a route I'd prefer though, personally speaking. [Smile]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central
This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2