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» 8mm Forum   » General Yak   » Film vs Digital ... Lets put this one to bed. (Page 5)

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Author Topic: Film vs Digital ... Lets put this one to bed.
Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted August 25, 2016 11:49 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I second that [Cool]

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 26, 2016 01:43 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Winbert: As I alluded to, storage is still an issue but not quite as bad as your post would imply and getting better all the time. If you were to archive in a completely uncompressed format, then I will accept your numbers, but there is no reason to do that to preserve the quality. There are loss-less compression algorithms where every pixel can be reproduced exactly as they were. Think about the way zip files typically work as a non-video example.

Tom, when you are talking ZIP or any other compressed files then you are out of the basic principle of archiving.

Professional archiving is to store the closest possible to the original, if you cannot have the original.

We cannot say that easy to archive William Shakespeare's manuscripts...just photocopy them (xerox) and store them in several places. Yes, you can still read the manuscript but the meaning of archiving is to keep the hidden information that probably is not yet seen now.

Star Wars The Force Awakens is 4K. We have just restored a B/W 1960s film to achieve the 4K quality. There are 150,000 frames in this film and to get this 4K quality, it took 2 hours for the archivist to restore every single frame, resulting 53GB for each frame. So the total for one 4K of this movie is 12TB!!.

12TB = 12,000 GB or eqv with 100 desktop computers [Razz]

The hard work of our archivists is now can be watched through a single DVD, but surely our archivists will not keep that DVD in their storage, but the true 12TB files.

Pls remember our movie is B/W and mono.....Star Wars The Force Awakens is in color and 5.1 surround sound, so the information data stored must be tripled if not quadrupled.

Anyway, this is already out of the original topic.

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Winbert

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 26, 2016 07:01 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
and with Shak-a-spear, there is much hidden information

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Florida
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 26, 2016 10:48 AM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert what a wonderful and interesting career, congrats. 12 TB for a single 4k B&W movie that is amazing. Is this uncompressed? Considering a good 2D 4k DCP will average a little over 100GB compared to the same Blu-ray @ 5GB it seems there is plenty of information we the viewer are not seeing regardless the format. Im guessing the archive file has enough information to benefit any future resolutions such as 8k and can be upscaled or doubled. Good work, thanks for your contribution.

quote:
Looks incredible Alan! How about a few more pics?

Paul I am on the road but return home in another week. I will post a few more pictures. Thank you [Smile]

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Tom Spielman
Master Film Handler

Posts: 339
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2016


 - posted August 26, 2016 11:19 AM      Profile for Tom Spielman   Email Tom Spielman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert: I agree that with traditional media you want as close to the original as possible when it comes to archiving. However, when preserving digital information, the media isn't what's important, it's the content. Digital content can be copied thousands of times and all of them be exact duplicates of the original. That is not true of film.

It is the same with lossless compression. If you can reproduce the exact raw digital content from the loss-less compressed form, then there is no reason to store the information in a raw format. It's just waste. If that violates some principle of archiving then those principles need to be rethought when it comes to digital [Wink]

If you decide that it's not only the content that's important, but for some reason you want to preserve the original hard drives used for "The Force Awakens" for whatever reason, that is a different matter.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted August 26, 2016 11:59 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This conversation is now WAAAAAY beyond me!

signed ...

OSI "Ol-fart-Analog" Osgood [Frown]

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 26, 2016 02:36 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
 -

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 26, 2016 06:17 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We never knew what we can do in the future with raw digital content and/or loss-less compressed form, so that is why archivists keep the best form possible. That is the basic principle of archiving.

PS: This is only a sci-fi idea. In the year 2180, human would have invented a technology to scren movie up to the sky where every person needs only look at the sky to watch the movie. However this need an 8K quality which can be made from raw 4K files...

Now you understand why we never knew what is going to happen in the future [Wink]

[ August 26, 2016, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

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Winbert

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted August 28, 2016 04:11 PM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cor blimey guys this is great.
I never realized this was still such a HOT topic.
It all seems very subjective now and that it is in
the eye of the beholder as to which is better.
[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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