8mm Forum: Robin Hood digests

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Topic: Robin Hood digests

Michael Wright
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 184
From: Chorley, Lancashire, England
Registered: Dec 2008

posted March 01, 2013 09:14 AM

Hi, I have parts 1, 2, and 3,of Deeran's Robin Hood is there a part 4? Has anyone tried editing them together in the correct order? Thanks MIKE

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Mal Brake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 591
From: Neath, South Wales, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 01, 2013 09:53 AM

Hi Mike,
There is a part 4 featuring more of Ms DeHavilland's scenes. Yes the other parts can be re-edited in their correct order. In fact the person responsible for the original editing, Keith Wilton cleverly did it in a way that collectors are able to re-assemble the scenes quite easily.[the United Artists contract with Derann prevented the extracts being released in sequence] Part four can be spliced into the edit in its entirety as it is a complete sequence.
The full length version also appeared on super 8.
Mal

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I'm gonna live forever or die trying

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted March 01, 2013 07:05 PM

Hi Michael, if you get in touch with Keith Wilton, I'm sure he still
might have the instructions of how the film fits together.

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Michael Wright
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 184
From: Chorley, Lancashire, England
Registered: Dec 2008

posted March 02, 2013 02:53 AM

Thanks Guys. MIKE

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted February 17, 2016 05:31 PM

quote:
[the United Artists contract with Derann prevented the extracts being released in sequence]

Interesting -- though I'm almost sure that THE SEAHAWK and THEY DIED WITH THEIR BOOTS ON are in the correct sequence.

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted February 17, 2016 05:40 PM

CARRIE was released as 2 seperate stories that needed re-edited together. I have a nice copy with good color but the previous owner already did the edit. I have never seen the two individual cuts.

Bill [Smile]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 17, 2016 06:05 PM

It's a work of art Bill, believe me! I have done it first time around and between the two reels i must have made at least 20 cuts to get this making any sense.

All that you get initially from Derann is 2 reels of nothing more than random scenes, in no particular order!
It is the Airfix kit of films this one!! [Smile]

Once in the correct order, it is a fantastic mini feature and excellently edited by the original Derann selected scenes.
It really does retain a superb storyline for only 700-750 ft of film!

I have subsequently sold this print then purchased another 2nd time around in the hobby.

Mine now, has faded a little, but the blues and yellows are vivid and it has faded towards brown rather than red thankfully.

There are a lot of dark scenes in this film being a horror title, so it really is difficult to judge, or be too critical upon regarding fade.
Same can be said for the Marketing Saturday Night Fever cutdown or feature.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Spinks
Master Film Handler

Posts: 453
From: Barking, Essex, UK
Registered: Mar 2006

posted February 18, 2016 12:44 PM

It's very easy to re edit "Robin Hood" into the correct sequence but if the film stocks are of differing quality or the frame lines don't match up it doesn't really satisfy so to speak. But I couldn't enjoy them properly in there original misarranged form as released.

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 18, 2016 03:48 PM

In terms of repeatability the 3x400 version is ideal and if you get a good print it is up there with the best of Derann prints. The fourth digest while it adds footage interferes with the flow and is markedly cooler looking in terms of print more blue look. The feature is also problematic the early prints are brilliant but the later reprints due to negative damage by the labs and changes to print stock used are much more muted and softer. I returned my first feature print to Derann it was so awful. The second print which was a different printing batch was a bit better but the 3x400 was still more vivid in colour. It was only when I had the opportunity to buy a feature print from a collector who had bought an early run print that I was really happy with this film. My advice is if you have a good 3x400 don't mess with it. If you want you want tthe feature be aware there are quite a few duds out there so look for screenshots before you buy from anybody.

Mike

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 18, 2016 07:19 PM

Are we talking the same film (with Errol Flynn) released in Germany by UFA?

If so...how is the edit of UFA's?

And what about with the one from Piccolo?

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Winbert

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted February 19, 2016 03:26 AM

Mal's right about Keith Wilton's editing.

Without letting on that he was the editor of the extracts, he published an article in Movie Maker pointing out that you could re-edited the three 400ft versions into one long version, with instructions on how to do it.

Genius.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 19, 2016 03:59 AM

Ken Locke was rather good at it also.
3x600ft Sound Of Music cutdown springs to mind for one. Every single song covered, even if not complete until you purchased the add on one reelers. Impressive! [Smile]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted February 19, 2016 05:58 PM

Which other Derann/UA digests were out-of-sequence? I know the MALTESE FALCON was.

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 19, 2016 06:33 PM

Derann released a number of 2x 400 UA releases. They were original released out of sequence but correct me if I am wrong I believe they released them later in correct order. From memory Angels with Dirty Faces, Treasure of Sierra Madre They Died with their boots on , The Seahawk, Captain Blood, Golddiggers of 1933, The Great Escape, Magnificent Seven, It's a Mad Mad Mad World. Dodge City was a 3x400 and Key Largo was just one 400 and a very good one at that. There might have been other Busby Berkley musicals Footlight Parade Golddiggers of 1935 ? and Dames were also released (not my genre).

Maltese Falcon and Angels with Dirtyfaces were the choppiiest to edit and unless you knew the feature you would be lost. The Errol Flynn and Steve McQueen movies flowed well and were the best edited. Treasure of Sierra Madre is also a good edit of the story.

Interesting note , Dodge City 3x400 was excellent digest and similar in quality to Robin Hood. Avoid the feature print never saw a good one either as Red Fox or Derann print negative wasn't up to much. Angels with Dirty Faces feature is worth having. Print was very good.

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted February 19, 2016 06:38 PM

My copies of They Died with Their Boots On and The Seahawk seem to be in the correct order.

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 19, 2016 06:46 PM

Joeseph I think it was a practice that Derann started and then discontinued as they could never get prints to match up. I bought Maltese Falcon and Angels new from Derann and thought it a pain to have to splice parts together. It was a reason why I gave Derann a pass until the other dealers folded with video. Other titles I got secondhand some had splices others didn't. They died with their boots on I had was actually a polyester print so it must have been a much later print but never featured in their catalogues.

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted February 20, 2016 03:18 PM

Sounds like a classic "what were they thinking?" decision.

"Let's print films like a jigsaw puzzle, and allow the buyer to re-assemble them in the correct order!"

"Sounds great -- you're getting a raise!"
[Big Grin]

[ February 21, 2016, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Joseph Randall ]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 20, 2016 04:19 PM

It was simply down to contractual rights with the film companies Joseph.

They were only allowed to release "selected scenes" on two parters.

It was either that or nothing. Thankfully Derann ran with it and we now at least have a mini feature of these films for those that put the effort in to place it all in sequential order.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted February 21, 2016 01:41 AM

As Andrew says, Joseph, Derann could not release 2 x 400ft or 3 x 400ft continuous versions due to the contract with UA.

So what Derann and Keith Wilton did was actually quite cunning and very clever. [Smile]

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Luis Caramelo
Master Film Handler

Posts: 494
From: Funchal
Registered: Feb 2011

posted February 21, 2016 05:29 AM

hi! fells,i agree wih all the comments,about the digests of deann two parners,aout the film dodge city.i hadthe vrsionof 3x400ft,was very well edited,but i got the full lengt 6x400ft from red fox,and i must say i had lucky i gues.because my printhas good color and defination ,not excelente compared for exemple with my fature robin hood,the quality of supe 8 prints,depends some times about the labs,and skill of the person who do the job...

best:
luiscarmelo

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted February 21, 2016 06:31 AM

I believe the rights were even more troublesome for Carrie, they couldn't show Sissy Spacek's nipples even though they were visible in the main titles. The actual film name was over her topless. Derann had to find a frame in which they were obscured (or edit one) and freeze on that for the title at greater expense.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 21, 2016 06:37 AM

very true Luis!

I never knew those facts Brian re Carrie. Thanks for sharing that one. [Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted February 21, 2016 04:31 PM

Yes I'm glad Derann released the UA/WB classics, regardless. Not sure why UA had the contracts written up that way.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 21, 2016 04:56 PM

Because Joseph, back then, film was still king.
People on here were showing films to their friends and families way before there was ever an alternative.

No VCR, no laser disc, what's a DVD and for that matter, what is a Blu Ray disc???

Nothing else existed for the masses, therefore film and its companies rights to display them however they wished, was king!

Film was never completely affordable by the masses to say the least, so the film companies had a product they could rule the roost with quite frankly.

Punters were just grateful for anything they could get back then of top releases such as "Carrie".

I remember at 10 years of age, my mum, her best friend, me and my sister all went to the cinema to watch the latest "hot" release.
It was called "The Champ" staring Jon Voight & Faye Dunaway.
I remember my Mum and my Aunt cried from the half way point right through to the end of this film.

3 months later I owned a brand new colour sound 18 minute cut down of this film and it was like gold in our house every Time my Aunt subsequently visited!

There was simply no alternative to ever seeing this kind of footage again in the 70's without a projector for most ordinary people.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted February 22, 2016 11:48 AM

I remember when film was king -- no one else I knew could show movies on demand like I could. When anyone visited, there was always a request to see a film. Great days!

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