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Author Topic: Exorbitant prices for super 8
Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted March 08, 2018 02:29 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are still bargains to be had, especially in 16mm, but I noticed as David Groves remarked recently, that prices are going up. I had a lot of good purchases last year, with films under £50, and my last Ebay purchase from the US was an incredible £19; from someone who is registered here, but not active. I forgot his name, but he's a leading light of the Chicago Film Society. The print was absolutely perfect.

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Rich Malmsten
Film Handler

Posts: 41
From: White Bear Lake, MN, USA
Registered: Feb 2017


 - posted March 08, 2018 02:35 PM      Profile for Rich Malmsten   Email Rich Malmsten   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have to agree that prices are often way out of my league. I don't collect features, just shorts and cartoons, but those prices sometimes leave me stunned. I was watching a 16mm cartoon that sold on ebay today for $305. It was a nice LPP Warner Bros cartoon, but even so that's a lot of money to spend for 7 minutes of film (almost $45 per minute!).

The most unbelievable selling price I've seen in the past few months was an Addams Family episode that sold last December on ebay for more than $2,000! I have a couple Addams Family episodes myself, but I've never spent more than $45 on one. I can't believe people would bid up a TV show to such a crazy (yeah, that's just plain crazy) level.

There are bargains to be had, for sure, we just have to be patient and be willing to lose most of the auctions.

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted March 08, 2018 02:43 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's disappointing when you get a bad deal; I had one last year, when I opened a film from the US and it had VS. This seller is now getting a reputation for sending out films in this condition. However, it's never made me think, like David Hardy, of selling up. What about the collection of good films that you have?. Easy, just stop buying, and have digital as an addition to your collection of films. I remember David telling me that he thought no 16mm feature was worth more than £10; so looking forward to some real bargains, if he calls it a day, and advertises his collection here.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4819
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 08, 2018 03:00 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think your right there Robert, another collector also said a similar thing to me a few months back, i think it was along the lines of "enjoy and be thankful of the films we have amassed over the years". I have been bitten once or twice in the last few years, (who hasn't),but to date, i have not paid any over the top prices. so far we have been reasonably lucky with the 16mm films we have, maybe one or two shorts will go up for sale in order to make room for a couple more good features, but that will be it for us then unless i can pick up Die hard for 200 or under [Big Grin] [Wink]
I think the one feature i have on 16 not available on 8, Dances with wolves, has really made us sit up and re think what we do with our Super 8 purchases. This year we have not bought any 8mm because the titles and prices of 16 so far has blown super 8 out of the water. We wont sell our collection but we continue to sell to fund new purchases.
Robert hit the nail on the head when he said there are plenty of good bargains out there, you dont have to pay stupid prices. Just be careful what you choose and most important, be careful who you buy from.
The same applies to super 8, the bargains are out there. Do you really want to part with a grand for "a movie"? Think how many films you could buy with that thousand if the titles you went for were all a 150 or less, a lot less. [Wink]

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted March 08, 2018 03:16 PM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert I still stand by my £10 claim.

However I have had a change of mind and will sell my films on Ebay well over their real worth. That will include faded prints too ! I am sure to make a lot of money on Ebay to fund my other hobbies. Hahaha ! [Wink] [Wink] [Wink]

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 08, 2018 07:06 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't really get what is the complaint" here about today's film price.

Have you ever heard about the inflation?

Use this inflation calculator to know what is today's value of £199 (the average film price) in 2000.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation

It shows £318.44.

So what is the price of super 8mm which this thread says to be "exorbitant"? The same amount, right?.

So if you guys in 2000 did not really bother to spend £199 for a F/L from Derann, why you now seems to be hard spending £318.44?

That is just the same amount, only the focus of your life has shifted to something else, e.g cars, families, houses, clothes, schools, other hobbies, etc, etc.

While you are not ready now to spend that £318.44 for a F/L there are always several new collectors who are just like us 15 years ago. So your "complaint" will be useless. The market will determine the price, not us.

It is as simple as like that.

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Robert Crewdson
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From: UK
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 - posted March 09, 2018 05:30 AM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think wages generally in the UK are much lower than they should be. In 1976 I was getting £7 per hour, some people are only getting that now, some companies blatantly advertise a wage that is below the legal minimum. Compare the cost of living in 1976 to 20018. So Winbert, some people are getting 1970s wages and paying 2018 prices.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted March 09, 2018 06:29 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I dont think anyone's complaining, simply making a point, films in general still have reasonable prices, we are talking about people asking (as an example) 500 to over a thousand pound for a film.
There anit a single title worth that as far as i am concerned. I am fully aware that if thats what people are willing to pay then thats that, i have always said if a film is listed at a reasonable price but bids go up to stupid levels then good luck to the seller, but why wont people pay that to a dealer? (i know the chances of them getting a top title is slim but thats due to ebay).
Let me put it another way and to the very point of this topic,
Here is just a few examples of the tossers that are causing these threads,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUPER-8mm-Film-UN-CHIEN-ANDALOU-SALVADOR-DALI-LUIS-BUNUEL-B-W-SILENT/222869516055?hash=item33e40eef17:g:JDUAAOSwqu9VJj3C
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BARBARELLA-Jane-Fonda-SUPER-8-CINE-FILM-COLOUR-SOUND-for-projector-cult-vintage/292467867170?hash=item4418717e22:g:14YAAOSwXfdamEcp
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUPER-8mm-Film-THE-GHOUL-PETER-CUSHING-400FT-COLOUR-SOUND/323120906250?hash=item4b3b81c00a:g:u14AAOSwImRYQVW2

There you go, and there are many many more, so please, if this inflation then someones got there maths wrong.These are second hand units and on one of them the idiot doesn't even know what its like, it states "may have age wear" What the F is that meant to mean? This is the threads main point,
Exorbitant prices for super 8 i believe and i agree 100%.

Give me 16mm all the way now, the prices are more realistic, (for most of the titles) and the quality is almost always assured if you are careful who you buy from and what you buy.
I love super 8 but will now look after what we have unless something special comes up [Wink]

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 946
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted March 09, 2018 06:57 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom ... Very well stated my feelings too. I have already seen those ebay films listed bloody crazy. I now according to these prices i now own a 9.5mm silent print of METROPOLIS that is worth a small fortune. £ 4000.00 to be exact. [Big Grin]

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Mark Todd
Film God

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From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted March 09, 2018 06:57 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have to say I have come right around to even enjoying a nice looking HD film on a memory stick through a half decent LCD projector.

I`m lucky at the moment using my sons VP for the time being as it looks so filmie only much better really.

I for myself would say top whack for a nice super 8 feature should not be above £250 or so really.

Its not just about what the market will stand but the damage higher prices are doing to the hobby and the distance you can fall buying a print with issues.

A feature for £100 that ends up with a few issues etc you can just about cope, but pay £400/500 and get the same its ruddy serious doings.

There are still some very fair and decent people about thankfully, but I think we can only expect a decline in the hobby as things go on.

But watching films on the big screen has also never been better or more affordable with BR or enen just digital files etc. You are still enjoying a film for all its merits and fun.

Robert is right wages in the UK compared to the cost of living are nuts now compared to other times.

A working man could keep a family, buy a house and car and even save. Now my eldest and his partner both work all hours and still barely break even, even if you will.

Buy a decent second hand WXGA lcd projector from about £100 and you are away with a wealth of films etc.

Films great but as I`ve said before zap back to 1895 with a blu ray player and an LCD projector they would of snapped your hands off. It was a matter of what could be done at the time.

But I do like the idea of filming films on the real stuff then putting it to HD. The best of both worlds.

Going to ask my son to do me a half hour digital digest of Jaws just for fun.

Best Mark.

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted March 09, 2018 07:08 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I ever decide to sell my faded 8mm prints on ebay I am going to charge extra if the original box is faded and torn too. [Big Grin]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Brian Fretwell
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From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted March 09, 2018 07:18 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The seller of 2 of the examples shown has always been well over the top with prices asked. In fact some people have wondered if he has ever sold any. I know of a couple of titles that come up every few months from him.

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Nigel Higgins
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Saffron walden.united kingdom
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted March 09, 2018 09:59 AM      Profile for Nigel Higgins   Email Nigel Higgins   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Most of these over priced rubbish films will never sell .one wonders what they would do if ebay started to charge to list again .but its crazy to think how some prints sell for more that what it costs to get a good hd projector ,the disc and probably the whole set up .i personaly hate the digital scene,but thats what we have got now .for me 16mm is the only way as you can get some decent films at good prices but there is still 16mm sellers that charge way to much out there aswell.

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Alan Rik
Film God

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From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 09, 2018 10:32 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
16mm has always been tempting for me.. the "dark" side! [Smile]
But for the titles I want the pricing is just as high or in most cases.. worse.
I love watching blockbusters on Super 8mm so this is what I would have to pay:
Star Wars Scope good color-over $2000. Any Star Wars 16mm with good color.. over $1500
Superman Flat-$1200.
Indiana Jones-over $1500.
Jaws Scope-Never seen a copy on 16mm with good color. I'm sure it exists.. somewhere..
Enter the Dragon Scope Good Color-Never seen one with good color. All faded.
And Disney is just as high:
Lady and the Tramp flat-$489
Little Mermaid flat-$560
King Kong Original-$611!! (what?)
Dr. No flat-$739
Snow White-$778
Horror of Dracula-$1661
16mm would only be a viable option if I liked different kind of films.
But what strikes me strange on 16mm is that many of the descriptions say the feature is a mix of different film stocks. R1 is IB Tech with a few parts that are faded eastman? That would suck for me if I bought that print. That has been listed in more than one auction.
I love the variety though. So many titles available.
I love this description in regards to a slightly faded 16mm print of "Monterey Pop".
"Only slight fading, but the color holds up really well. The 16mm color gives you a feeling of 1968". I guess 1968 had a "slighty faded" feeling! haha....

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted March 09, 2018 11:16 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Too high = don't buy - anything I ever looked for hobby wise always had a ceiling price for me or I just waited for the next one to come along - if some collectors pay seemingly over the top prices as long as the money is their's I don't care - life's too short to worry about other people and their money.

Kevin

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Nigel Higgins
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Saffron walden.united kingdom
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted March 09, 2018 11:49 AM      Profile for Nigel Higgins   Email Nigel Higgins   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Alan there is a post on here somewhere that explains why some 16mm features have different stocks.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted March 09, 2018 11:55 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom, those types of listing have been on Ebay for years. We have even a dedicated category for that (funny listings).

So it is not new...it's silly listings for ordinary titles that never been sold.

No...that is not the point of this post. What I got is the initial poster "complaining" because he could buy at cheaper price from a dealer while other seller sell exorbitant prices outhere (yet still sold).

I would say, if dealer put the same title on Ebay, he will gain the same high amount, but then he needs to deal with all Ebay's rules which for some people are way too complicated and far more on buyer's side.

So it is again market determines the price.

As to inflation rate...and Robert says the salary now is lower than in 1970...I don't buy your statement.

The inflation calculator is available in many website and all show just almost the same for today's value of £199 in 2000.

So there must be another problem in the UK which I cannot figure it out because I don't live in that country.

But I can say....you buy less price (value) for fuel, food, films, cars, etc in 2000 than now. But it doesn't mean they were cheaper at that time. Simply just because the inflation rate you pay higher than before.

Why (some) field of work now pay less than in 2000....just probably you are not working as lawyer, IT designer, application developer, etc, etc a work that pay top dollars because those fields are needed more now.

Our lives are spinning like the earth...there sometimes a dark side or the bright side [Wink]

As to collecting 16mm...as Alan said...you are buying top title with top condition...you will pay more than 8mm.

But if you are just talking 16mm in general...

Which one is you choice, 8mm or 16mm for this kind?

The above question is posted in many film forum and most the answer they chose 8mm...even in 16mmfilmtalk.com.

So if we are talking top titles in excellent colour, you will need to pay top dollars either in 8mm or 16mm.

Cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Nigel Higgins
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Saffron walden.united kingdom
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted March 09, 2018 12:05 PM      Profile for Nigel Higgins   Email Nigel Higgins   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It all depends who you buy the films from .i have some good 16mm titles that didn't cost the earth

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10163
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted March 09, 2018 12:05 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've got to admit, I'm pretty much "small potato's OSI", in that i really don't have the big dollars to compete with the big dollar fellows ...

Though ... if the RIGHT super 8 print comes up, i will venture sticking my neck out and really going for it, for instance, a half way decent color print, (i'm not expecting perfection from an optical sound print from 1974 THESE days, after all) ...

of ...

you guessed it ...

"The Life and TInmes of Grizzly Adams!"

By the Way, nice discussion! [Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Nigel Higgins
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Saffron walden.united kingdom
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted March 09, 2018 12:24 PM      Profile for Nigel Higgins   Email Nigel Higgins   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
osi,if i ever get that grizzly adams film its yours.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5451
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 09, 2018 12:34 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nigels,

Where you buy your cheap 16mm for the top titles is your lucky find.

In 2012 I paid an F/L Star Wars (Derann) for $150, while it was already $800 at the market price and $90 for a GS-1200. I posted that my lucky finds in this forum.

But we are talking about the price in general.

Cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted March 09, 2018 01:50 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert, you didn't read my statement properly. I said I was paid £7 per hour in 1976, my wife was offered a job at £7 an hour only last year. Some companies offer jobs paying even less. Hope that's made clear for you.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5451
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 09, 2018 03:16 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes that is exactly I was saying.

You didn't tell us what type of your job in 1976 and your wife in 2018.

But again films you buy in 1976 sounds cheaper for 2018 money because of the inflation rate.

Tell me what is a brandnnew color and sound film 400' in 1976? I found some Mountain film has the price tag £29.

Cheap????? [Confused]

In the US for a color and sound 400' film from Ken Films is $54!!

Cheapppp....???? [Confused]

As many people have said in the beginning...this hobby has never been cheap..and we are complaining about the price now...after 42 years.....

[Eek!]

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Winbert

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

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From: New Zealand
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 - posted March 09, 2018 03:53 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All I can add to this topic is.... [Big Grin] which sums things up dont you think.. mahna...mahna... [Wink] [Smile]

https://youtu.be/QTXyXuqfBLA

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1228
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted March 09, 2018 03:58 PM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham
Haven't seen that for years,unfaded too [Smile]

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