8mm Forum: Standard 8mm or Regular8

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Topic: Standard 8mm or Regular8

Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted August 13, 2013 12:57 PM

As far as I'm aware Dominique, the "double 8" bit is only for raw stock, as double S/8 or quad s/8, as would be used by labs in
printing film.As Maurice correctly stated, it was a 25' strip of
film re-punched for amateur use.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 13, 2013 01:50 PM

Thanks. Just for information, I see that both of you, Maurice and Hugh are using past tense about the double 8 shooting. But there is still filmstock for this gauge and the system has not changed, so I think we can use the present. Who could had forseen in 1965 or in 1985 that there would still be double 8 stock in 2013 ?

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Dominique

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted August 13, 2013 02:04 PM

I am not implying that standard 8 is no longer available. My comments refer to its original introduction in answer to previous questions.

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Maurice

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 13, 2013 02:08 PM

Good. In English it has probably a different effect than it would have been in French. [Smile]

The most important is that gauge, too is still alive and seems to attract some interest.

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Dominique

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted August 13, 2013 02:15 PM

Very true Dominique, but look at 9.5, this little film gauge is still
tickling along after all these years, a credit to the users all these
years hence.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 13, 2013 02:20 PM

I shoot in 9,5 at the beginning of July, the preceding time was in June. I didn't bring my camera on holiday only for technical reasons (the security checkings in Israel are strict and they can open your gun looking camera which of course ruins your film).

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Dominique

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted August 13, 2013 02:43 PM

Well done Dominique, it's good to know that folks like yourself
still use a film gauge like 9.5. Makes you wonder if the digital stuff
will last as long.I've said it before, and I'll say it again, use this
stuff now, enjoy it, get your fun out of it, tomorrow is an eternity
away.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 13, 2013 02:47 PM

You're so right, Hugh.

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Dominique

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 13, 2013 04:34 PM

One of the great joys of Standard 8mm is being able to use cameras like this:

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Erik Snel
Junior
Posts: 30
From: Leiden, South Holland, the Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2013

posted November 18, 2013 03:05 PM

i love standard 8 as well as super 8, i even have 16mm and a few 9,5 mm films. i own more than enough projectors to use with those films (135 to be exact yes i know i collect stuff [Smile]

, and 87 of them are build by eumig.

a footnote, the difference between super and single 8 was not only the cartridge, super 8 was made of cellulose acetate and single 8 of polyeste. this made it stronger so the film could be thinner and the reels in the cartridge smaller.

standard 8 is called in holland dubbel 8 (double 8) or just 8mm and super 8 just super 8 [Smile]

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Erik Snel Eumig Expert
ES Filmtechniek

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 18, 2013 04:43 PM

In French, it is also called double 8. It seems from what what written on this forum that standard 8 or regular 8 (following if you are in the US or in the UK) refers to the gauge and that double 8 reffers only to the camera film system.

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Dominique

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John Yapp
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Telford England.
Registered: Dec 2011

posted November 18, 2013 06:51 PM

So Maurice, does this mean that every roll of std 8mm has a splice after 25ft?

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 19, 2013 02:36 AM

Yes, John, it has, although I am not sure what size spool the Bolex H8 camera used.

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Maurice

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009

posted November 19, 2013 03:26 AM

I collect silents in the R8 format, features preferrably [Smile]

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Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted November 21, 2013 01:59 PM

I have a couple of standard 8 films, but nothing to show them on. What is a good projector to buy?

Are these OK Silma 240 which was also a Prinz Compare Standard 8 from Dixons. Or Eumigs, which ever must be sound

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 21, 2013 04:26 PM

I had bad experience with the Silma. I had the same problem with two projectors : the speed button (at the rear of the machine) not responding anymore.

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Dominique

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John Last
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Codsall, UK
Registered: Dec 2012

posted November 23, 2013 10:53 AM

Standard 8 is great! I've just edited a 1959 film that I took all those years ago and it's as good as new. I have a Eumig S 712 and a Eumig Mark S for sale (both v.good sound projectors) if any one is interested.

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Thomas Dafnides
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted November 24, 2013 07:28 PM

At the time Super 8 was introduced...Consumer Reports did a review of the new film format. Their conclusion was that Super 8 offered no significant improvement to justify replacing working standard 8mm equipment.
The higher priced Super 8 cameras did offer improved resolution over Standard 8mm, but many super 8 cameras had inferior plastic lenses, whose picture was sometimes inferior to standard 8mm.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 24, 2013 08:43 PM

In fact, super 8 was a step backwards in many ways. The tatty Kodak plastic cartridge was a boondoggle - Fuji showed how to do it properly with their single 8 cartridge. For whatever reason, prime lenses were abandoned in favour of zoom lenses for both camera and projectors, and a lot of these were plastic instead of glass. So picture quality went out of the window with a lot of cameras and projectors. Most cameras and projectors also seemed to switch from metal to plastic construction at the time of super 8 introduction.
IMO no super 8 camera ever matched the quality that could be obtained with Bolex 8mm cameras fitted with prime Kern Switar lenses.
Yes, super 8mm in theory should be 50% better than regular 8, but in practice this was rarely realised. And there were no technical advances achieved on super 8 that could not have also been obtained on standard 8.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 25, 2013 06:14 AM

And we had to pay more for using Kodak's new baby. Standard 8 film ran at 16fps, whereas Super 8 ran at 18fps. Did they ever say why the change in speed was necessary?

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Maurice

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

posted November 25, 2013 10:57 AM

Kodak set 18 fps for Super 8 to adhere to the ASA (American Standards Association) standardised "silent" speed adopted in 1960 for 16mm projection. Some manufacturers such as Bolex changed from 16 to 18 fps well before Super 8.

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Paul.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 25, 2013 11:00 AM

I also wondered why there was a 16 to 18 fps move. From what I readed (not exactly about that but about filming at 24 fps instead of 18 or 16 fps), a higher speed improves the sound (at least it was like this before) and the picture. It also allows the film to heat less when it pass in front of the projector lamp. But does 2fps really make a difference ? Or is it more, as suggested, to make you buy more filmstock ?

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Dominique

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009

posted November 25, 2013 11:07 AM

John, I am unable to send you a PM.

Could you provide some more info on the Mark S you are selling, and possibly pictures?

What is your asking price?

My mail is ch.bjorgen@gmail.com

regards
Chris

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Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

posted November 25, 2013 11:09 AM

2 fps doesn't sound much but it's a 12.5% (1/8th) increase on 16 fps. The change was justified by the American Standards Association to reduce flicker but many people pointed out that the Bell & Howell 16mm projector of the time overheated below 18 fps due to the slower speed of the cooling fan. Of course Super 8 was a more expensive format at 72 frames per foot not 80 frames per foot and 18 fps not 16 fps!

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Paul.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 26, 2013 02:41 AM

I quote from the Bell & Howell Projector Book by Edwyn Gilmour (Focal Press 1960):-
"The normal projector lamp to be used is a 750 watt lamp. For really large screens you can also use a 1000 watt lamp, provided you only project sound films at 24 f.p.s. Never use the 1000 watt lamp for projecting silent films at 16 f.p.s.; at that speed the cooling provided by the fan is insufficient."
The book refers to the wooden blimp models, 601 to 640.

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Maurice

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