Wolverine-Hawkeye Telecine

[Bruce Davis]

David, thanks for the explanation regarding misalignment, its fantastically detailed, must have taken you a long time to compile.
Kamel, thank you for the great original designs that made it easy for me. I forgot to mention above that in the N8 capstan sprocket assy posted I also added an extra tooth to maintain roughly the same diameter as for the S8 (S8=15.9mm Dia). With 13 teeth instead of 12, the diam used is 15.48mm (3.81 pitch x 13 teeth = 15.7659mm dia, used 15.765 less the film thickness 15.765 minus 0.2794 = 15.4865).

If anyone wishes the original Inventor 2019 files please let me know and I will post them. Not sure if anyone else here is using inventor or a program that can import these files.

Regards - Bruce

[Stan Jelavic]

Kamel, agree we all contribute one way or the other. It is a pretty complicated project and the team brain is required to overcome the problems.
David, when I originally tested the capstan I did not have issues with the film slipping off. But at that time I used the continuous takeup. Possibly the pulsed takeup is causing issues as you suggested. I actually was concerned that this may happen when I implemented the pulsed takeup.
The claw pushes the film and then the takeup pulls it. Actually the takeup pulls the film from the previous push since its pulse happens at the beginning pf the claw cycle. So, what might be happening is that the claw pushes the film and makes it loose since there is no pull force at that point and this could disengage the film from the capstan. That could be one issue and I think I can fixed that by changing the takeup timing.
The other issue with the bad film and active capstan. Possibly that can be fixed too by switching the talkeup to continuous mode once the bad film is detected.
Possibly just firmware change.

One more note:
David wrote:
Stan, the motor mounting screws I have are M3x6 countersunk heads.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Do these screws fit properly? Are the heads flush with the bracket surface? If not, they could cause the cause the whole assembly to be crooked in respect to the Wolverine panel.

[David Brown]

Stan, thanks for the suggestions. For all I know I'm the only one with this "alignment" problem, if that is the cause.

I think the pulsed take-up was added after V7? I've replaced the the original spring in my take-up reel in anticipation for the newer system. It can actually pull film thru the gate while the claw is low! Holding back the take-up by hand is not as accurate. So I can't say if that stepping take-up is a problem.

I think a clip or retainer of film to teeth has always been used on projectors because the film coming off, can happen. That's where I'm going for a solution.

I never did trigger the capstan motor when the film had come off the teeth, but the odds of that scenario seem low.

[Kamel Ikhlef]

Thanks everybody,

I had designed a shorter curved pulley for those who do not want the capstan.
This pulley could be placed just after the capstan to help with alignment.

I'm going to double check the dimensions. I think about a support pulley to hold the film in place
(maybe with a rubber band or a small spring). The idea of the magnet is also to think about.
The fixing could be done on the 3rd pulley on the right (well, it's still confused).

After checking the dimensions, it seems that the capstan can be moved forward 0.5mm to improve alignment.
I will redo my toothed pulley and slightly change the shape of the teeth.
Model with brass insert.If you are interested I will post them as soon as finished.

The back will be a little thicker (0.5mm).
I also designed a small wedge to fix the capstan without rubbing on the metal of the wolverine.

BTW : I retained the measurements of Bruce. his calculations are more judicious.
It has taken the inside diameter that the film forms and it is more correct.

[Stan Jelavic]

I don't think too many people are using the capstan David. I know Bruce is and seems it works for him.

[Chris LaRocque]

Stan, I offered the same suggestion to TIS tech support yesterday. I contacted them to resolve a "Device is in live mode, but there are no images" message while trying to get better than 1080P out of the unit.

If anyone else is interested, I'm building the TIS Camera app on OpenSuSE (I'm a no Microsoft in the house person) and intend to use GStreamer for acquisition with ffmpeg / Cinelerra for workflow.

Regards

C.

[David Brown]

Hello Chris

I had the same message and no image, but only at the higher resolutions. I had an older driver. That's for windows 10, don't know where your driver comes from.

[Stan Jelavic]

Thanks Chris. Maybe it is obvious to them but the sensor protection film caused problems with several people in this forum. In one case the film left some residue on the sensor and had o be cleaned with alcohol.
As David says, your issue could be driver related.
Back to the 3D prints. The supplier agreed to work with me and will reprint the parts with 100 micron. Will have the pics from them of the finished parts. Will see how they turn out.
The V11 boards are scheduled to arrive on Friday. My weekend will be busy.

[David Brown]

That is good news Stan, you mentioned those were done locally. I ordered a 16mm lens a couple of weeks ago from Hangszhou, China. It should have been here by now, shipping was a third the cost. I think the factory must be closed or crippled. They don't respond to email. Well, my lens is the least of their worries.

OEM sent me a 12mm lens with the sensor. I didn't order it! Must be All the Hawkeye orders have made it a routine?

[Stan Jelavic]

Yes the company in Tampa Fl. The package came in today from them. Will check it tomorrow morning. I also received the 2mm set screws from China. Took a while but still made it. So, probably your package will arrive ultimately despite the problems. At OEM it became a routine

[Bruce Davis]

Hi Stan Kamel David, after David's remarks regarding alignment, have taken another look at the situation. The set screw location when the capstan pulley is lined up with the film is quite bad. See images below:-
Being at the tip of the shaft is bad because with a little too much screw pressure the pulley will tilt (wobble).

This is where the set screw should be located close to the center of the available shaft length (only 6.5mm).
I am working on trying to solve this.
Regards - Bruce

[Stan Jelavic]

In my case the pulley back part fit is snug over the motor shaft and there is no play and I do not see any noticeable wobble even with the set screw tight. The new part printed in 100 micron is better but the teeth are still tapered. The print supplier suggested SLA.

[Kamel Ikhlef]

Okay, I double-checked all of my files and dimensions. Based on Bruce's calculations,(internal diameter of the film)
I arrived at a satisfactory result. the new tooth shape also prints better and the film rolls up perfectly, well centered.
attached link for those interested.
I will correct on thingiverse later. I look forward to see the Stan’s v11 tests.
We will soon achieve very good results.

Yes, Stan Resin is better for precision prints.
My last ABS prints seems good, but I would like test Resin too.
STEP Files below :

[Stan Jelavic]

That is good news Kamel. What is the outside diameter? Received the V11 boards and will test them this weekend.

[Kamel Ikhlef]

Stan,
I look foward for your tests. It's very interesting.
I can't wait to read your test results.
I still have to work on the 3d of the front panel which will protect the whole finished system to turn shut and protect from parasitic light and dust.
I have been very, very late. But I do it from time to time. I will publish when I am more advanced.